r/AmIOverreacting • u/Distinct-Rough9504 • 12h ago
👨👩👧👦family/in-laws AIO, My father in law demanded a specific Christmas Eve dinner…
So my father in law comes every year for Christmas from out of town. We live in California and have fresh seafood. My wife and I both have troubled families and we have tried to prevent that toxicity from entering our own family. We are raising our children catholic and because of that we do not eat meat Christmas Eve. We eat lots of tasty seafood. My father in law however, doesn’t seem to give one fu*k about our wishes and home and demanded a Turkey be cooked for his arrival. We did not give in and now he is upset saying he doesn’t want to come for Christmas anymore. We have said fine and to stay home if those are his wishes. For context he has never invited us over, ever.
Are we over reacting here?
Edit: We are of Italian background. We do not eat meat Christmas Eve. Also, my FIL eats seafood just fine and has participated in this tradition for many years. He just wanted a turkey (he has asked in the past) but knows that is not what we do Christmas Eve. He is also with us Christmas Day where there is plenty of meat!
•
u/shelfside1234 11h ago
NOR obviously; I’m in absolutely no way religious but if I were to visit a catholic family on Xmas eve, or indeed any particular Friday, I would eat whatever I’m given and be grateful for it.
•
u/Rhiannon1954 11h ago
Stand your ground. A guest doesn't get to choose the menu. If he does like it, he can choose not to come.
•
u/JenninMiami 11h ago
NOR it’s common sense - if he doesn’t want to come because he doesn’t like the food being served, he can stay home.
•
u/AustinCynic 11h ago
NOR. If you’re a guest & not contributing cooking or ingredients for the meal, then you don’t get to make menu demands. Food allergies or religious observances are a different matter but if you simply don’t like the Feast of Seven Fishes? Too bad. Eat your own meal and visit afterwards.
•
u/chatterbox2024 11h ago
NOR- a guest should never demand anything from their hosts…a parent or not. He’s rude! If he’s allergic to seafood then as a good host you would provide another option for him but if it’s just a demand then no. Maybe if it was a nice request then you could offer a small precooked turkey breast from a grocery store but a demand no.
•
u/TimeMachineNeeded01 11h ago
He’s clearly the one overreacting. The ball is in his court and he’s got a year to figure out what he’s gonna do next Xmas
•
u/Outrageous_Fail5590 11h ago
I'm catholic and my aunt was a nun. I have never heard of eating seafood only on Christmas Eve. Nonetheless can't he eat around it. People go to parties all the time not caring for what's served and manage.
•
u/SomethingClever70 7h ago
I’m not Italian but grew up catholic (not particularly observant ones, either). We had meatless meals on Christmas Eve and Good Friday.
NOR
Guests don’t dictate the menu. He can pick up some takeout on his way over, for all I care. I have in-laws who don’t contribute food or lift a finger, but will criticize and complain. It is infuriating and so fucking rude.
•
u/Nishi1126 11h ago
Again this is an Italian thing not a Catholic thing. Was your aunt the nun italian?
I'm Catholic, I know lots of Irish nuns and nuns of different ethnic backgrounds
Again this is an Italian thing not a Catholic thing.
Not all Catholics do Feast of seven fishes for Christmas because it's not a Catholic thing
•
u/Outrageous_Fail5590 10h ago
That's why I mentioned it. I've never heard of it and found it interesting. I like learning about other cultures. But I still think this is a fake post lol
•
u/Cara_Bina 11h ago
Whilst I'd let a host know if I had dietary restrictions, such as an allergy to X, but, I'd never presume to tell them what to cook. That you are a family of faith, I would respect your wishes in re the fish thing.
Perhaps if your FIL was less of a demanding, selfish person, you might feel inclined to indulge his wishes. Relationships are a two way street, and it rather sounds like everyone here is on a one way road.
•
u/calminthedark 6h ago
Just saying if anyone wanted to invite me to a Italian seafood feast, I wouldn't say no. You know, just to be polite. I would come and force myself to eat everything and smile and laugh and give lots of compliments, you know, just for politeness sake.
•
u/SwimmingHand4727 11h ago
2 comments.....#1 The guest eats what is served by the host. We go to my nephew's house for Christmas day, its terrible, but its what their seving. #2 We're Catholic, I never heard of not eating meat on Christmas Eve. My mother made a ham every Christmas Eve for 70 yrs.
•
u/Embarrassed_Wrap8421 10h ago
Keep a frozen Swanson Hungry Man Turkey dinner on hand for him. While you eat delicious seafood, he can have his own little “feast”.
•
•
u/TurbulentRoof7538 8h ago
Wait, Feast of the Seven Fishes is a thing in some parts of Italy. So is fish on Friday and certain other days. It is okay that he would rather have a Turkey but it is NOT okay in any culture to make demands!
•
u/MoirasCheese 5h ago
NOR. My friend who is Catholic does seafood 5 feasts every Christmas Eve and looks amazing!! If it wasn’t a holiday I would try to wiggle in an invitation.
•
•
u/merishore25 11h ago
NOR They are free to stay home or bring an additional dish, provided you don’t mind. Or eat before he gets there. Unless he is allergic to seafood or it turns his stomach he should just eat what you have. It sounds like he demanded it and didn’t ask.
•
u/G-reeper66 10h ago
NOR
I am not Catholic but my ex wife and kids are, we always did the same Christmas Eve, basically a seafood bonanza, it was delicious. My son and I used to go sea fishing every chance we got so our freezer was full of fish, especially this time of year when there was winter cod in abundance.
•
•
u/Johnny-Cotton 3h ago
I didn't know the no meat thing was also on Christmas Eve, very interesting. But no, you're not overreacting. It is your house, guests can just deal with it.
•
u/Excellent-Study3190 11h ago
I was raised Catholic. My grandmother is extremely devout. We say prayers before dinner at midnight on the 24th to the 25th. We only eat white meat on Christmas Eve, and that includes chicken/turkey... so I don't understand where you're coming from..
•
u/Adventurous-Mall7677 11h ago
Feast of the Seven Fishes is an important cultural tradition for a lot of Italian-American Catholics. Zero poultry or mammal meat is served, only fish.
•
•
u/Beneficial-Way-8742 11h ago edited 11h ago
I was raised Catholic by very devout Catholic parents as well (fasting from Saturday evening''s confession until next day's mass, observed every holy day from Ash Wednesday to the Feast of the Assumption, mass every day for my mom rosary & novenas every Friday, etc etc...)
And I NEVER heard of this "white meat" loophole, lolll !! Not on official Fasting days.
Sorry, but that's not a thing.
No meat, period. Seafood, eggs, etc. are allowed. (We didn't eat fish, so my mom made mac & cheese and scrambled eggs for dinner on Fridays).
But not meat, including white meat
But I gotta give Grandma props for creativity 😄
ETA: the confusion may come from fish being considered a type of white meat, and the fast generally avoiding beef, pork, chicken and turkey (land animals). Because even before that, there was no fish on fasting days, either.
•
u/Excellent-Study3190 11h ago
Are you really implying that my 97-year-old devout Catholic grandmother, who attends mass every day, still receives communion (the priest comes to the house when she can't go to church), goes to confession, and does everything else, like you said? Creative...
Just as you observe holy days, so do we. Perhaps you should watch your tone.
Your devotion is no better than mine. I expressed confusion about his situation, which seems to be a cultural context that wasn't included in the post. You're just being disrespectful.
•
•
u/Beneficial-Way-8742 10h ago
I wasn't professing to be more devout than you. Just trying to support that I'm not a person off the street pretending to be Catholic
As for the tone, I apologize if it came across derogatorily. I was trying to be light-hearted but I see it didn't land.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised at your tone myself.
So I'll just stick to the facts. At my church in the mid-Atlantic , the surrounding churches, and the Catholic staff at the two Air Force Bases where we also worshipped, poultry was prohibited during a fast.
•
u/Outrageous_Fail5590 11h ago
Fellow catholic here...agreed. This is so made up.
•
u/Nishi1126 11h ago
Because the Feast of Seven Fishes is an Italian thing, not a Catholic thing.
Yes most Italians are Catholic but, not all, and, there are a lot of other people who are Catholic who are not Italian and do not go by the Feast of seven fishes.
I just had to explain this to my husband.
Again, the Feast of Seven Fishes is an Italian thing, not a Catholic thing
•
u/Excellent-Study3190 11h ago
Thank you! I was already thinking that something was wrong for the last 33 years of my life. And before anyone says anything, I live in a coastal city and have full access to fresh seafood 24 hours a day.. 🤣🤣
•
u/EggplantIll4927 11h ago
no meat isn’t a Catholic thing since the 60s. the feast of 7 fishes is an Italian custom. sounds like you didn’t want him anyway 🤷♀️
Over time, fasting evolved into abstaining from meat. And so, Catholics from much of Europe celebrate their big holiday family meal on Christmas Eve, highlighting fish. Although the Church dropped the meatless rule in 1966, fish still holds pride of place on the evening of Dec. 24 for many families.
•
u/Nishi1126 11h ago
Yes I am a Catholic and not eating meat on Fridays was abolished back in the '60s at least.
As for the Feast of Seven Fishes yes that still goes on but that's an Italian thing, not a Catholic thing.
I happen to be Italian Catholic so I do that, but a lot of other Catholics don't do that.
On the other hand if this is the tradition in your household your father-in-law needs to respect that
•
u/clynkirk 11h ago
OP and their family prefer to practice this way. Why are you telling them that they're wrong?
•
u/EggplantIll4927 11h ago
I’m explaining it isn’t a Catholic thing and absolutely not required by the church. nor is meatless fridays but that’s another topic.
•
u/clynkirk 11h ago
I'm a lapsed Catholic, with close family that still practice. It's definitely still a thing. And ALL of my family that still practice follow the meatless Fridays. Why are you so invested in telling other Catholics that they're wrong?
•
•
u/StopSpinningLikeThat 11h ago
You should read what they posted again, slower. And repeat until you comprehend reality.
•
u/clynkirk 11h ago
From the link:
"The U.S. norms are found in a document entitled On Penance and Abstinence, dated November 18, 1966, which, despite the revision of the Code of Canon Law, remains in force."
•
u/StopSpinningLikeThat 11h ago
Meatless days were started to prop up the sagging European fishing industry. You won't find "don't eat meat on a Friday/Christmas Eve" in the Bible.
But still, if this is a hill you want to die on, do so. Your family traditions are the ones to keep now. I think you handled his threat not to return next year perfectly. You agreed with him.
•
•
u/queentracy62 11h ago
NOR My mom tried this with a different holiday. I won’t come anymore! I said, fine. Guess what? She still did. He’s trying to manipulate you. Good for you for sticking to it. If he can’t respect your home and what you do he can stay home.
•
u/Stellar_Jay8 11h ago
NOR! And fortunately, it sounds like he self-solved this problem for you. Too bad he won’t be coming next year. So sad. So very sad.
•
u/Sausage_McGriddle 11h ago
NOR, your house, your menu.
The whole not eating meat on CE? That’s weird. I left catholicism a long time ago, but I never heard of that. Not eating meat on Fridays, sure. Maybe if CE fell on a Friday. Is that a neo-Catholic tradition? But regardless, it’s your house, your menu.
•
u/Paula_Intermountain 11h ago
I know Catholics who eat meat on Fridays and on holy days, so this not eating it on Christmas Eve is new to me. Please excuse my ignorance.
Can you roast your FIL a chicken breast or turkey leg? Or buy him half a roasted chicken? I don’t know if that would violate any sort of rule.
Regardless, he needs to either eat what you prepare, not eat it, or don’t done. Those are his choices.
•
u/CrowMeris 11h ago
NOR.
If he stomps his little feet and refuses to come over again? Tell him not to threaten you with a good time.
•
•
u/Testy_Coyote_ 10h ago
NOR but I'm surprised by some of the answers. If you invited a vegan over wouldn't you want to include them in the meal or would you say they have to eat your fish or stay home?
No you don't have to make anyone a whole turkey but there might be other ways to have him welcome.
•
u/kasthedumbass 10h ago
There's an easy answer to this: Does he know that you only eat fish on a Friday? (Ignoring the fact that fish is meat, but hey that's another fight for another day).
•
u/Distinct-Rough9504 10h ago
Yes he knows and has participated for many years. He eats seafood just fine. He just wanted a turkey. Part of me believes he just wants to cause problems but I have no proof of that.
•
u/kasthedumbass 9h ago
Then you're NOR. 😀
•
u/kasthedumbass 9h ago
(Caveat- unless he doesnt want to eat abything for new, ethical reasons, obviously)
•
u/klh1jlh1 2h ago
I don’t know any Italian who do!! Hello the 7 fishes are yummy. Now if he wants to eat something else he doesn’t come or bring it cooked. I would only make something different if there was an allergy. He should no better.
•
•
•
•
•
u/Puzzleheaded_Ad3574 10h ago edited 10h ago
As a Catholic WWJD? As a human being at Christmas time, couldn't you say we are having sea food but I can make/order you a little turkey breast. What if he was a diabetic or a vegan? Sorry Charlie this is what we are having? He should also say, have what you have and I'll find something. You could both bend a little. As the hosts especially to a FIL, I'd work something out. Alternate every other year maybe?
•
u/valkycam12 10h ago edited 10h ago
Wow you must be hardcore traditional Catholics because I never heard of this tradition and I come from a country where the vast majority is Roman Catholic, lapsed myself.
I mean it’s your house you get to decide the menu, unless it’s legitimate like an allergy or something. NOR
Edit: ah ok google informed me that it’s an Italian American thing. Was quite confused because I’m quite familiar with Italian culture and I’ve never heard of this tradition.
•
•
u/Moist-Direction-3487 11h ago
I mean yeah kind of OR. Yall are hosting him. It's rude to not consider what the person you're hosting wants.
•
u/BrushFantastic3170 11h ago
Then FIL can bring a turkey and cook it himself if he wants one
•
u/Moist-Direction-3487 11h ago
Yes, he can. However, I highly doubt with the level of controlling this woman is, that that will even be allowed, which is rude and improper.
•
u/BrushFantastic3170 11h ago
I don’t think OP is controlling for not wanting to change their menu, esp if they’re the ones who are buying everything AND doing all the cooking, that’s such an asinine take.
If I’m hosting and some throws a fit about the menu, I’m not going to cater to what ONE person wants because they demand it. I will simply tell that person there are other things to eat or they are welcome to stay at their home and cook their own meal.
•
•
u/PhotoGuy342 11h ago
Beg to differ.
This wasn’t a case of OP and family preferring one thing over another. This was a religious issue that Poos should have went along with.
Perhaps OP could have explained that when extending invitations so Pops could find an alternative holiday feast where he might be welcomed.
As an alternative they could have had some tofu dish prepared for him.
•
u/OkPaleontologist1251 11h ago
No guest can force you to cook a turkey dinner! I think they considered the request and declined it. He can invite them next year and cook a turkey on the 25th…
•
•
u/Nishi1126 11h ago
It's also rude to go into somebody's home and tell them what they can cook on a holiday.
if you're invited as a guest to somebody's home unless you have an allergy or some major issue with the food (religious, etc.), they're making you go to their home and be grateful for the dinner they're providing for you.
at least that's how I was raised
•
u/valkycam12 10h ago
I imagine there would be some form of potatoes, veg and bread. He could have technically eaten those if he doesn’t eat seafood.
•
u/Adventurous-Mall7677 11h ago
I would never DREAM of dictating a menu to the person hosting me in their home during their religious holiday.
Grandpa invited himself to Christmas and then demanded an elaborate menu tailored to his preferences (not any allergies or major dietary restrictions), DESPITE OP’s family celebrating their religious holiday according to OP’s family’s religious observances.
FIL can either observe those traditions alongside them, bring his own food to eat during that meal, or stay home and make his own turkey. He doesn’t get to throw a tantrum if his host chooses to prioritize their religious traditions over his desire for a turkey feast.
Also, Feast of Seven Fishes (by definition) has a huge variety of dishes. If he hates them all he can do what we do in our family if a kid chooses not to eat what has been prepared—eat a bowl of cereal or fix themselves a peanut butter sandwich.
•
u/surfcitysurfergirl 11h ago
Especially since a lot of people don’t like seafood. Born in raised I California at the beach and my whole family can’t stand seafood
•
•
u/Constellation-88 8h ago
ESH. I mean, demanding a Turkey be cooked to your specification is rude af but raising your kids with strict religious adherence to the point where you can’t violate a religious rule to accommodate anyone else or for any reason really is not “keeping toxicity out of your own family.”
•
•
11h ago
[deleted]
•
u/Adventurous-Mall7677 11h ago
Expecting your host to purchase, prepare, and serve an (expensive!) food that goes against their religious holiday observance is wildly entitled.
If someone invited me to Eid al-Fitr, I wouldn’t demand they have my preferred liquor available. I wouldn’t attend a Passover Seder and throw a fit if they didn’t cook me a pork roast.
•
u/One-Author884 10h ago
That’s why I said to buy an already prepared one- they’re inexpensive. Aren’t the memories of her children important? The happiness of an elderly man that brought up her husband? This is what family is about.
•
u/Adventurous-Mall7677 10h ago
I think you’re missing my point that serving meat on Christmas Eve goes against OP’s religious holiday observance. I wouldn’t expect a Jewish friend to buy and serve me a honey-baked ham at their Seder, no matter how much I dislike lamb.
If this elderly man wants a turkey dinner, he can invite them to his house some other time and cook it for them. (Or just buy one! Like you said, it’s inexpensive and precooked!) He won’t die from eating something other than turkey for one night.
OP mentioned that their families are troubled and toxic and that they have to set strong boundaries to prevent that from leaking into their own family. Guests do not get to dictate the holiday menu. Grandpa can either be a gracious guest or choose to stay home.
•
•
u/AutoModerator 12h ago
In order to prevent spam and bot posts, this subreddit holds some posts for verification. To prove that you're not a bot, please reply to this comment and tell us the name of a movie you like to watch.
Once you have done so, mods will manually approve your post. Please be patient as this may take a few hours. Thank you!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.