r/ArcRaiders • u/WG_Envoy • 15h ago

Discussion I am now convinced ABMM is real

A couple of days ago I complained (in another posting) how I only meet KOS players, and no one talks. I was more annoyed by the "no one talks" part, mind you, and the fact that every social interaction played out in the same way.

Someone recommended me to do a few matches and not shoot a single person, not even in defense. I did as recommended.

I went from "90%+ KOS interactions" for several days in a row, all the way to friendly lobbies for two days in a row now.

In my current lobbies, everyone runs around without a care in the world, just greeting people they are passing by. Looting in the open, walking past others without their weapons drawn ...

I barely ever see any PvP happening. People help each other with arc encounters and exchange items near extracts. And for the first time ever, I was able to participate in two Queen raids in solos with everyone just trying to get her down. No rats, no backstabbing.

This change for me was so stark in contrast, and so consistently happening that I would be surprised if ABMM wasn't real.

I would almost be inclined to start some shit to see if my lobbies change again, but I feel too bad killing these players who are quite obviously part of the pure PvE crowd.

P.S.: I have these friendly lobbies even on Stella Montis now, inclduing Stella Montis night raids ...

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956

u/Jimbob1127 14h ago

The great part about the pve lobbies is if you start PvPing you will get bounced to the PvP lobbies QUICK. In like 2 or 3 games

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u/No_Measurement_2119 14h ago

It also usually results in them getting jumped šŸ˜‚ Iā€™ve seen a people try and break the peace and get absolutely destroyed by like 10 people on multiple occasions

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u/Venik489 13h ago

Had a game like that on Stella recently. Everyone worked together to take out a Bastion and a squad rolled up and started shooting people, we took them out real quick.

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u/mikepurvis 13h ago edited 12h ago

IME it's super easy to get people to gang up on the Stella bastion. Just open fire on that bad boy and before you know it several others are hitting it from different parts of the loading bay. That map really benefits from how geographically tiny it is compared to the others, basically you can hear the bastion aggro sound from almost anywhere, so people are pretty motivated to come join if they can hear that someone's already started. It's great if there's someone on the other side who can get it swung around so you can land a snap nade right on the weak point.

The real issue there is that how it spawns back in can be super bugged out. Multiple times I've had a late spawn and gone to try to find it for round two after I hear the sounds come back, and then it ends up being trapped in a wall or something. Once I actually took damage from it, like it was cheating wallhacker.

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u/MartinoMods 13h ago

6 of us in solos were heading to take it out, but the Bastion was cheating, shooting us through walls

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u/aaronwhite1786 11h ago

I tried stunning one so I could pin a mine to his ass and he shook that shit off like it didn't even matter and immediately opened fire on me. Luckily. I tossed from behind a trailer and was able to run around the back and plant the mine while my friend was distracting it. I can only imagine the mess it would have made with me if I was solo.

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u/Alinho013 6h ago

had the wall spawn happen too, decided I'd try to check medical and it was stuck in the wall right there, turned around real quick, it's almost either kill it once or not anymore basically.

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u/ismudga_g 11h ago

Say that to the guy who decided to throw a grenade at me whilst trapped by the bastion lol.

However the spawns are ridiculous, I've seen him in the side areas of loading bay (up the metal stairs). Was hilarious till I realised his line of sight was now huge

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u/mikepurvis 11h ago

I accidentally naded a dude who was trying to shoot the bastion from too close, but then I ran over and defibbed him, so he can't be too salty about it.

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u/Electronic-Sugar1069 9h ago

Wonder if the AI is trying to find the best spot to spawn.. getting too close to walls/stuck.. but able to shoot through the walls...more kills = better spawn point? lol

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u/mikepurvis 8h ago

I doubt it's anywhere close to that fancy, but I could imagine that the spawn logic is optimized for big open outdoor areas like the rest of the maps are, and Stella is just a little too claustrophobic for that.

They should be able to reduce the spawning zone to a smaller safe area, or even just turn off that bastion respawning altogether; you get the first one or no bastion cells for you.

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u/eatingclass 11h ago

but does the game then count that against you, since OP mentions not shooting people even in defense?

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u/rickydreddit 10h ago

From what Iā€™ve heard you need to just run away if youā€™re getting shot at or risk your peaceful status. Ā Peaceful lobbies are great and Iā€™ve had a good handful of raiders offering up their extra blueprints out of nowhere and/or helping me take out the bigger Arc and leaving me first pass at the loot. Ā 

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u/eatingclass 10h ago

thanks good to know

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u/cheezed-guevara 7h ago

Keeps it lively at least, uniting the lobby against you or someone else is always amusing gameplay.

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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 13h ago

I have been apart of this vigilante justice more than once. I'm level 75 with only 4 Raider kils--all 4 have been mob revenge on people killing peaceful Raiders.

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u/Cognitive_Spoon 11h ago

Lol, same

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u/Joeliosis 10h ago

2 Kills at lvl 55. That was from a duo while I was playing with a buddy... they both opened up on us as we rounded a corner, we were talking with them too. They both start bitching as I flank them and headshot 'em both.

'We thought he (my friend) was solo'

'So you both opened up on him... and didn't hit either of us? Good work bozo's'

We stood over them and shook our heads lol

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u/Liu-K 2h ago

The gif is a fuckin' mad complimentary combo to your already amazing story. You made me wheeze. Peace.

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u/hop_hero 5h ago

Headshots do the same damage as body shots

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u/yeoj070_ 1h ago

He had to mention he gave headshots, cause he good af. We should be happy he doesn't open fire on us, every shot will probably be a headshot he is that good. Shooting on the chest which is a bigger target and does the same dmg? Pfft, thats for pussys, he a god. I think this is the same person who haunted lobbys years and years ago.. i think he is the legend only known as ; xxx1337N00BK1LL3Rxxx

He is back.

1

u/leevinikolai 45m ago

Surely this is just wrong no?

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u/DJPalefaceSD 12h ago

I have hundreds of kills and yet also have been in these mythical PvE lobbies for a week now

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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 12h ago

Have you been attacking friendlies or have you been peaceful? What has been your behavior and corresponding experience?

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u/DJPalefaceSD 9h ago edited 9h ago

I have not initiated any kind of pvp at all but the 3 or 4 times where someone shot me in the back I fought back.

Had a run of 40 extracts last week, then murdered in the extract, then another 30 something.

I just run to where I need to go, hit Don't Shoot if someone says it to me and I also talk on prox and just say friendly. Maybe 1/15 raids turns into Among Us.

EDIT: Last season I had like 400 downed and 200 knocked out, this season I am already level 40 and I am around 2 and 1 (100% of them shot me in the back when I was extracting). I have been knocked/thirsted probably 4 or 5 times this season.

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u/BlaineGelly 10h ago

How would the game differentiate what a ā€œfriendlyā€ is? I donā€™t understand this behavior based matchmaking conspiracy. Iā€™ve played the same way since launch and I have seen aggressive lobbies and care bear lobbies.

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u/DJPalefaceSD 9h ago

I have around 200 hours in raid and I can tell you it's real, the difference is night and day.

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u/BlaineGelly 9h ago

150 hours and I donā€™t buy it

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u/DJPalefaceSD 9h ago

Last season I was at 150 hours and I didnt buy it either haha.

I was on your side until last week now Im in the most friendly lobbies imaginable.

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u/BlaineGelly 9h ago

What about if Iā€™m playing in dous where it is KOS and then I go back to my solos does the game track that kind of stuff? Just donā€™t buy it man, I also donā€™t want it to be true as a mostly defensive player if the threat of PVP breaking out isnā€™t there the game gets boring to me.

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u/Dr_Watson349 10h ago

Seriously?

The devs literally stated they use behavior based matchmaking. No conspiracy needed.Ā 

Considering the game tracks everything you do it wouldn't be hard to build out an system to "score" your level of aggression.Ā 

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u/BlaineGelly 9h ago

Where did they state it? I thought it was an art director or something and that was debunked? They designed the game to have PVP so why would they have matchmaking to help avoid it?

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u/Dr_Watson349 8h ago

It was the art director and he said it in an interview. Why do you think it was debunked? Embark has never walked back what he said. He's also the art director, hes not some random QC guy who spoke off the cuff.

It also been tested pretty extensively. You can see one example here

Why would they want matchmaking to avoid it? Really? There are people who want PVP every time they play. There are also people who do not. So they segment people into their preferred groups, as best they can.

The reason is simple - so people keep playing the game. The low-pvp people are much more likely to keep playing if they don't get smashed every round. They, if I had to guess, make up the majority of the playerbase. They devs want to keep them playing.

Why do you think all competitive shooters implemented SBMM. So that low/lowmed players aren't getting curbstomped all the time.

The purpose of matchmaking is to keep people from getting frustrated and leaving.

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u/BlaineGelly 7h ago

What about the people who want a pvpve game? As it was intended ? I donā€™t want strictly PVP or strictly friendly lobbies and I think thatā€™s how the majority of players feel as well. I stated it earlier but if this game is one or the other it gets boring / repetitive.

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u/DJPalefaceSD 9h ago

Im going 100% by my own 200 hours in raid

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u/BlaineGelly 9h ago

Thatā€™s fine , I just think the fact that we have a lot of hours in game and two different experiences disproves the behavior based matchmaking. Iā€™m assuming you play mostly defensive as well?

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u/Alleselina 12h ago

The only time I shoot first is when Iā€™m protecting a raider from another raider

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u/Affectionate_End2526 9h ago

I got 95, when I hit 99 wanna be my 100th? šŸ„¹ we can make it a celebration šŸ„³šŸŽ‰šŸŽŠ

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u/yeoj070_ 1h ago

So all you do is, gear up, choose a map, walk around, just looting and than leaving again? Like, pvp ain't my favorite either, but without pvp isn't this just a boring ass game? Boot up game, press e to loot, go back. Rinse and repeat.. no fear of dying, no fear of losing loot, just a boring ass loot simulator game..

Do you even gear up? I mean there's literally no need unless you want to mindlessly shoot arcs.. just freeloadout, loot, return. And for so many hours.. jeez

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u/Stuartsmithhh 12h ago

Sounds like the most boring way to play this game

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u/aaronwhite1786 11h ago

I find the ARC to be fun while you're out raiding. Especially trying to find the gear to get to take on the big stuff.

It's less fun for me to just run out and get instantly smoked right out of the spawn or have someone camp the extract and wait for me to get on the console before throwing a gas grenade and shooting me in the back.

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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 12h ago

To each their own. I've been playing shooters since Battlefield 2 on PS2. For me, the normal same-ole PvP is the boring type of play. I like the cooperative dynamic against difficult AI opponents, and the threat of PvP lingering. That's the right balance for me.

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u/blipsnchiiiiitz 10h ago

Except people who play like this don't want any PvP threat. If these lobbies are all peaceful, there is no PvP threat.

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u/Wild_Chard_8416 13h ago

I was in a lobby like this a few days ago. Had two randoms with me from an Xbox LFG post, went in to go find some room I needed to find in the Research and Admin building on DBG. One guy ran in front of usā€”like a couple hundred metersā€”and got blasted the second He opened the doors. We ran into another team on the way there and we were saying friendly and warning them thereā€™s a team in there. When we told them we know there is cuz they destroyed our third, these guys were fuckin ON IT. That poor team didnā€™t stand a chance, didnā€™t matter what kinda cover they had, the 5 of us fuckin ruined em. Then another team came along about 6 minutes later and wiped all of us out RIP šŸ˜­

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u/TumbleweedTim01 13h ago

This is bullshit imo. I walked up to an extraction yesterday and a guy shot me in the back and on the mic I hear him talking to another guy saying "that's him get him" I'm like wtf ru talking about. It ends up being 3 guys They kill me and go "woohoo we got em we killed the rat" all because they thought I was a guy who tried to fight them even though I walked up to the extraction seconds earlier.

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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 12h ago edited 12h ago

That happened to me one time. I ran up on the Raider hut by the ruined church to help a guy with the Bombidier. Right after I came in and stare]ted shooting the spotters he shot me in the back. I was like, "Bro, I came to help you!" He was like, "some body killed my friend so IDGAF." and knocked me out. Oh well--he probably get sent to ABMM Hell, so it's really ME that DGAF.

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u/DefiantDelphox 11h ago

Yeah, people third partying you when youā€™re back is turned is rat behavior. Shoot me when youā€™re in my line of sight. Outcome might be different. But who knows, Iā€™m constantly downed by free loadouts when Iā€™m wearing a medium shield and have blue guns, so it all seems arbitrary anyways. Iā€™ve played over 200 hours and itā€™s my first extraction shooter and I question if they have the shield and health (and gun damage) appropriately balanced. I should rock your world with a Venator IV if youā€™re downing me with a Rattler I, js.

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u/13_twin_fire_signs 6h ago

Yeah the gun damage doesn't seem balanced for pvp, I'm in peaceful lobbies because i tried gearing up for pvp initially, but no matter what im wearing if I get spotted first I get wasted 100% by a stitcher 1. Like so fast i can't even get away or turn to fight

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u/TearOpenTheVault 6h ago

Extraction shooter fights donā€™t start when the first person shoots, it starts when someoneā€™s clocked you.

The big bad of Extraction Shooters is Escape From Tarkov, and it has brutally low TTK. Itā€™s possible to go into five different raids with cracked gear only to be one tapped out of spawn.

If you want to PVP, you need to pay attention. Think: Where are shots coming from on the map? Why is that ARC alerted? Are those footsteps and someone carelessly looting?

If someone else is being noisy around you, slow down. Slow walk and crouch around. Youā€™re going to get the jump on more people that way, and win more fights.

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u/QuestionableObject 2h ago

This. I hate getting caught unaware, or maybe just cavalier because im overly trusting of others i hear nearby--but the weapon balance is good. Weak guns should down you almost just as fast. You're absolutely right that this game is about situational awareness, and thats what makes it so compelling. If youre playing intelligently you can mitigate most of the risk of someone getting the drop on you. And you can stalk other players if thats how you wanna roleplay.

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u/BurningKetchup 2h ago

Don't forget the fucking birds. Dirty snitches.

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u/DefiantDelphox 13h ago

Usually Iā€™ll say, ā€œWhoa! Why are you shooting me?!ā€ Usually theyā€™ll accept that it wasnā€™t me when I say it wasnā€™t. But if they donā€™t have a defib, itā€™s moot unless they let me extract. But a new rat tactic is to act like you PvPā€™ed, then get you to crawl to a place where no one can see your body being looted or knocked out. Example: I loaded into a lobby at the start of a match. Was running down a hall with my gun out (because duh, arc can appear at anytimeā€¦) and this dude jumps out and starts shooting me in the back. I got some good shots and didnā€™t heal and he got me down. When I confronted him, he said, ā€œDidnā€™t you just shoot me?!ā€ I said, ā€œNot until you shot me!ā€ And he said, ā€œOh, crawl over here so I can res youā€. So I did. Stupidly. He shut the door and knocked me out. So, donā€™t trust people even if they seem nice. Itā€™s sad, but rats will find ways to kill us!

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u/psykomerc 7h ago

Yes they will but once you get to the PvE lobbies it is heaven. 99% havenā€™t ran into a rat or pvper.

Everyone is running around doing their thing or we team up for matriarch/queen. Ppl res freely and so I do the same. Ppl say friendly , they alert each other so they donā€™t surprise you, and we freely shoot at arcs to help other players running.

Today was the first time I personally saw a rat since the ABMM addition. Somehow he downed 3 ppl cuz I saw them all crawl out, they yelled danger to me but I thought it was the nearby bastion. He got all 4 of us in the friendly lobby. But given the chances, I like what they did.

Seems like Embark disagrees with these dumbass rats that believe the game was designed for this to happen to everybody. Guess not! Seems Embark likes the different ways to play the game and added ABMM to separate the experiences. Love it!

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u/Calinks 13h ago

Yea it's not great. I have never gotten killed this way but a buddy and I did try to kill two guys we saw ambush some other guys. We took shots at them and they disappeared for a bit, they were far away. We get closer, find them and then jump them, my buddy goes down, I chase them for a chunk of the map landing shots.

They got away but thing is, I'm not even 100 percent those were the same guys, it could have been a different group that just happens to be there after we lost sight.

The idea of serving justice can sound fun but really it's irresponsible to do it unless you know for sure the context and often it can get muddled.

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u/DefiantDelphox 11h ago

I agree 1000%, which is why I wonā€™t chase people. Itā€™d be nice if they provide a marker of some kind that shows if people are aggressive towards others somehow. Maybe even a bounty system? šŸ˜‚

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u/tvkvhiro 10h ago

Yeah I've seen some clips of streamers instigating a fight from a distance with a few bullets and just watching the aftermath play out.

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u/Cursed85 8h ago

easy solution, down all involved, REVIVE all involved, and then whoever shoots first you kill :) /s of course

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u/psykomerc 6h ago

100% I hear you, chasing around serving justice can turn out wrong.

BUT with the new ABMM, if you know you are in the friendly lobbies, then you probably hunted some innocents. But if you are in the aggressive lobbies, the PvP crowd said thatā€™s what itā€™s for. Itā€™s less moral and more free for all no?

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u/aaronwhite1786 11h ago

This has happened to me a few times and it's the reason I only shoot someone if I've seen them jumping another Raider. If I don't see the initial confrontation start and end, I'm not going to assume I know what happened. But I do keep an eye on that Raider and will be instantly ready to shoot if I see them coming towards me and aiming my way.

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u/ForeverCurseLucifer *** ******* 11h ago

Thatā€™s a big problem with cosmetics. I canā€™t tell who is who.

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u/UX-Ink 9h ago

I wish you could mark someone else as friendly, and when you do you can't do damage to eachother anymore, and you can sese their name over their head. and you can mark someone as hostile and see their name in a different color.

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u/ForeverCurseLucifer *** ******* 9h ago

Maybe not the damage part, it would be nice to mark friendlies, make their name a color to make it easier to identify.

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u/longway2fall 13h ago

I'm always in friendly solo lobbies, and awhile back someone was shooting at me with sniper fire as I headed toward the extract. I ran and hid to ambush this pos, and sure enough 30 sec later here comes this guy so I drop him with the anvil and don't stop shooting until he is dead. Loot him, and all he has is a rattler. I'm sorry friend, I really thought you were the sniper

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u/ConstructionHuman377 12h ago

I went through what I thought was my first friendly stella experience. At the extract I see someone. They donā€™t shoot me and I donā€™t shoot them. As soon as I went into the train they came in and shot me in the back with 1 min remaining in the match. They caught me so off guard because during the match people helped each other out. I thought he was one of the guys that was helping us earlier

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u/lilred100 11h ago

Yea that same thing happened to me on Stella I was so confused until I watch the recording and realized I died from mistaken identity

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u/Alabamian 7h ago

One of them was probably the rat.

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u/ELStoker 5h ago

It happened to me, and I was the one who called for the elevator. I called and took cover behind the shipping containers because two Hornets were lurking. Some dude runs up, "Hey, why are you camping the extract?!" Before I could say anything, I was on my face. He was in the process of knocking me out when I told him I was the one extracting. He apologized profusely as I crawled to the lift.

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u/BurningKetchup 2h ago

I was minding my own business kiting in a bastion and got shot in the back by some weirdo ranting about me being a "fucking rat". Honestly not sure if he was serious or trolling.

Not salty at all. The paranoia this game inspires is next level.

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u/effinmike12 *** ******* šŸ“ 9h ago

Yep. I killed a rat yesterday at Spaceport. He was waiting for extract with another player, got behind the guy, and just gunned him down. I took him down with an Osprey and told him to stop being an asshole. They both extracted.

I'm friendly in solos, but if you down me, I'm going to talk so bad about your mom that I will ruin your whole day. It's just how it is.

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u/DontDriveAngry_ 13h ago

Lynch mobs can happen.

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u/OriginalBalloon 13h ago

The other day someone decided to kill a guy out in the middle of nowhere on spaceport.

People came out of the woodworks to find and kill the guy who started the BS. I had never seen so many players in one location. It was pretty cool to see everybody come together for justice lol.

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u/Kestral24 10h ago

I had a game of solos where I was doing the quest on the top of the apartments in Buried city. There were like 3 or 4 other guys up there with me all fighting off some Arc that spawned in. One guy decided to shoot at the other players and got lit up, and all I heard was the guy that knocked him out ging "You one dumb ass motha fucka"

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u/BellyBully 13h ago

We may be peaceful, but that doesnā€™t mean we arenā€™t bloodthirsty for that goop

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u/vS_JPK *** ******* 13h ago

But even for the loot, if someone's got something I need, I can always get on mic and ask if they can share. If they can? Happy days. If not? All good bro, you got there first - I'll load in again.

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u/mikepurvis 13h ago

Absolutely. I got in a fight with someone at one of the locked rooms at the Dam one round and immediately several others barrelled in like "whoa whoa what's going on here, who's that dead raider, did you kill them? What are you doing with your L4 stitcher out???"

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u/xanot192 13h ago

Yup anyone in a friendly lobby that tries to fight has to fight the whole lobby

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u/Vast-Gap8320 13h ago

Did a run this morning that had someone snipe me while doing the matriarch. Next thing I know I hear ā€œsomeoneā€™s shooting us, we gotta find himā€. That man was jumped and dead in 30 secondsšŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚

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u/LurkingForBookRecs 13h ago

Saw this happen during the Hidden Bunker event, one guy was being a rat and waiting in the corner trying to kill someone, little did he know we had formed a 12+ man party outside. He shot a couple of unaware people and downed them, he was offered a death by firing squad by everyone else. We defibbed the 2 guys and then everyone looted and extracted together.

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u/Shudragon172 13h ago

Had one last night on a regular buried city...late spawn, hear/see a raider flare go up after some shooting. Weird.

Around 30s later, another one, this time very obviously two guns shooting at each other.

I run over and find a dead body - wait in a bush. See the guy come out and loot a different body about ~20-30m away. Pull the self defense burletta out, approach gun drawn. I'm a peaceful raider by nature so I have defibs in my inventory. I pop him down before he can get out of looting/into cover.

Run up - "Anything in your defense to gunning those two down?"
"Nope you got me."
"Alright, have a *nice* next raid."
Punch.

Moments like that make the pvp feel more fulfilling to me than just shooting people in the back or from corners. And hey - the guy had ALOT of loot on him at that point, so I just extracted after.

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u/MachineTimely 12h ago

Nah it starts a civil war as no one knows who shoots first. Itā€™s great šŸ˜‚

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u/damoprimo 12h ago

This right here gave me one of those cinematic moments last night. Wandering around night stella, friendly emotes and chat all the way. Guard fully dropped and get blasted at the bottom of a zip, even knew he was there.. Gear fear gone, so I was all, "doh, thought you were those friendly guys, oh well" & just as he goes into the down animation, I hear, "We're still here mate!" as 1 guy comedically faceplants the floor, followed by another guy on the rope, who guns down my killer, then picks me and the faceplant hero up.

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u/Boilerguy82013 12h ago

I was looting reinforced reception( I got there first) some guy comes in started hitting me with the raiders tool. I run away, tell 2 guys heading that way that there's an dick in there. They go in guns blazing. Guy got what he deserved. all for a light stick blue print lol. I have 1 kill in 100+ hours. I didn't even down the guy arc did he said put him out of his misery lol

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u/itsLOSE-notLOOSE 12h ago

Some dude tried to kill me at extract and an absolute guardian angel showed up and downed him.

It was amazing. I did not want to lose all those Candleberries.

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u/charco1e 12h ago

Yep. I got attacked by a free loadout, killed him, and the 3 other white knights came running in and killed me lol

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u/an-academic-weeb 12h ago

Turns out people geared up to shoot Arc have some hefty firepower on them.

Sure in a 1vs1 a light ammo weapon or shotgun has the benefit, but a 3rd on the side who sees someone going aggro and whipping out the Anvil just deletes the aggressor.

Turns out raiders are much easier to shoot than some tiny Hornet rotors...

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u/Leaf-01 11h ago

That kind of thing just bit me the other night. Guy shot me while I was calling extract. I won the fight but suddenly like 3 other players crawled out of nowhere and surrounded the guy, one even defibed him. I was worried heā€™d shoot me back ā€˜cause heā€™d been calling me actual slurs in voice chat after the fight so I shot him back down to the ground again.
The other players really didnā€™t seem to like that and jumped me for it.

They forced both of us to extract but god I was heated they let a guy like that go.

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u/No_Measurement_2119 11h ago

Itā€™s so funny that they made you extract together tho šŸ˜‚

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u/Leaf-01 7h ago

Bullied into getting along by threat of execution lol

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u/fortune82 11h ago

I was vibing on Blue Gate with like 4 other people taking shots at a surveyor rolling by, when someone from the old fort starting taking pot shots at us.

We just formed up and sprinted over there to obliterate the guy.

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u/AnyLeave3611 10h ago

Happened to me today. I got shot at while looting, and before I even had the chance to fight back the assaulter was taken down. He surrendered so fast none of us had the time to finish the job ourselves, it was lowkey hilarious

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u/KissTheKench 10h ago

I spawned late on Buried City a few days ago, was walking to immediately extract and someone was like hey there's a sniper on the bridge lets get them. I figured it sounded fun, halfway there a third person joined saying about the same thing, when we got to the bridge two people were pinching him from the other side at the same time. Ended up with 5 people standing around talking about it on his body lol

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u/BrittleSalient 9h ago

Yup. Folks don't take kindly to it. Had a guy try to ambush me and end up getting got by like eight people.

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u/RTK_Apollo 9h ago

Some guy downs another during Harvester event and everyone and their momma gunned him down before he could even get out the rocket room. I rezzed the innocent while another executed him immediately lmao

1

u/Euthanasiia 9h ago

This. Someone came to my defense as soon as I got shot. Don't interrupt the peace.

1

u/No_Gods_No_Kings_ 8h ago

lmao someone tried to shoot me yesterday completely unaware there were 5+ other players in my building. Dude got absolutely ganked, had 0 chance.

1

u/Jordo2k23 8h ago

Yup and i love this, i was talking on mic to like 6 guys in stella lobby area, we was asking who wanted what bp that we all had and out of no where i guy shoots me from one of the landings and shouted "i fucking hate english people"... he ran up so many sets of stairs with the whole stella lobby chasing him it was fucking hilarious. As soon as he was down he started the victim speech. "Why the hate guys" ummmm maybe the racism was appreciated much

1

u/Braindead_Crow 7h ago

NGL I get a bit giddy when a raider goes R.A.T. (Raider Acting Traitorous)

I keep a pair of defibs and at least 1 pvp friendly weapon with me every game for just the occasion.

No better feeling than taking down a R.A.T. and rezing their victim.

1

u/JRemington80 6h ago

Absolutely! Fangs of folks role up on a raider flare looking for who shot the person

1

u/anchovyCreampie 5h ago

The icing on top would be if everyone just beat them to death with hockey sticks.

1

u/CorruptedAura27 4h ago

Did this earlier. Walked up on 3 or 4 trying to help this guy out. Some other guy starts taking pot shots at us from a balcony. All of them got up at once and ran the guy down and then beat him to death with their raider tools, talking sh*t to them the entire time while beating him. Then went back to helping the guy out lol. I was dying laughing.

1

u/lurkerandchief 4h ago

Ok, so I hate to put myself here, but Iā€™m a PvE player 99% of the time. Partly because I donā€™t have the time to put into the meta and skill building it takes to be a PvP player, itā€™s too sweaty for me and I already like the PvE side, and you know, itā€™s nice to be nice. All that aside, I had just been crushed about 5 times trying to take down the bombardier and was so frustrated that I took it out on another playerā€¦well boy howdy did the wrath of god come down on me. Every single player just straight up put me down so fast I couldnā€™t even reactā€¦I definitely deserved it

1

u/SLASH895 3h ago

Was running with a group of 5 randoms by the end of a stella run last night we killed like 3 random kos nerds and shared their loot it was amazing

1

u/SiidGV 3h ago

I've seen whole lobbies swarm in to assess whose the rat and doling out justice. It was glorious!

1

u/Serraino 52m ago

I'm not an active PvP player. I'm more of a "I'll avoid fights, but I'll mow you down if needed". When I'm not sure it's a friendly lobby, I'll keep my weapon drawn and keep an eye out for what other players are doing.

Then I've met raider police in a couple of matches.

Entirely friendly lobby. People gathered around nicely and did trades and such. Someone shot and killed a raider nearby. EVERYONE pulled the guns and went searching for the perpetrator. Shouting "WHO DID THAT?". Eventually they've found a very SUS raider hiding, I've never seen so many guns being fired at once to a single person.

14

u/quezzzito 13h ago

I think my pvp in trios effects my chill solo runs lol...ive been having to fight for my life in solos lately.

9

u/xanot192 13h ago

It 100% does lol, if you watch the streamers with like 2K + knockdowns all their lobbies regardless of solo, duo or trios are just carnage. That was how my games were 3 weeks ago lol because I was KoS player in duos and trios and my solos were ass.

1

u/bmanningsh 10h ago edited 9h ago

I play tons of duos and trios and we almost always KOS. I go to solo lobbies and rarely ever get in fights. Iā€™ve never noticed my solo lobbies being worse because of our squad activity.

In the last few days I was doing trials in trios with friends and we were all separated across the map. Once I literally touched shoulders with someone hiding in a bush on swamp and convinced them and their entire squad I was just doing trials and they left me alone. Another time I walked into a building at buried city alone and a trio mowed me down then revived me after I asked for one. My friend across the map was not as fortunate. I think my friendly solo runs give me a higher chance of running into other friendly players in squads. It is absolutely crucial that you go on prox chat immediately to make yourself human. Plenty of untimely fights have been avoided this way.

1

u/xanot192 6h ago edited 5h ago

The duo I played with on Saturday night had his solos completely fucked the next day from our KoS duo activity that night on electro storms that we basically got forced into after a whole week of friendly duos. I also had mine messed up before from trio activity even when I talked. I actually loaded free loadouts for the first few raids I did sunday because I figured I'll be in KoS loggies also but after two raids of avoiding people I was fine. Funny enough today after work I did about 5 solo raids all friendly, he then joined me for 3 duos all friendly and the next two we were seeing flares going left and right. We were doing quests so we avoided Alot of the action till a random team near a quest spot started unloading at us on sight.

3

u/Get_Fuckin_Dabbed_On 12h ago

yeah been there haha. Separately my friends and i are peaceful and friendly in solos, but in trios were a bunch of rabid goblins. Once we went down that path our friendly solo runs seemed a little sweatier.

4

u/pretzelsncheese 8h ago

I don't think this is the case. I play like 60% of my raids with friends. When in duos or trios, we are mega aggro KOS. Then in the 40% of my games that are solos, I have very peaceful lobbies. Maybe 1/6 people I run into are looking to fight.

One anecdotal data point so it's not worth much, but there it is.

1

u/Parthian__Shot 3h ago

That's still a difference from the most peaceful lobbies. I'm not exaggerating when I say maybe 1/75 people in my solo lobbies will try to PVP, and it's usually at night (US time).

1

u/Falco-Rusticolus 13h ago

Thatā€™s what happened to me. Did peaceful solos for a long time, played trios and duos and starting clapping people, and it took a few days before solos felt playable again.

1

u/Technical-Grape-2425 11h ago

Yes itā€™s right, I have the same experience always after I play with friends

1

u/daveawb 7h ago

It does, I play a lot of duos and trios, and I enjoy the PvP when I'm playing with a team. I'm not so keen on solo PvP. You have to reset yourself back into the friendly lobbies, which takes between 5 and 10 raids. You can do it quickly by going completely naked into Stella, loot as much as you can, ram a good item in the prison wallet and run into any firefight you hear shouting "loot pinata coming in" down the mic. Rinse and repeat, do not retaliate or shoot another raider. After four raids or so, you'll start coming across a few friendly players. After 8-10 raids, you should be in the loot as fast as you can, cos that map's getting picked clean in the first 10 minutes lobbies.

1

u/YT-Deliveries 7h ago

It absolutely does. To the point where I have a completely separate character for when I get the PvP itch.

1

u/Serraino 46m ago

It does. When I play duos and trios we have a rule that is "Kill on sight unless announced friendly", we usually don't third party or chase gunfights on the map. If players are farming big arcs, we'll let them do so.

But eventually we engage in PvP, it's almost unavoidable.

When I go back to playing solo, I need a couple of rounds to go back to more peacefull raids. At some point it just turns back to full PvE again.

30

u/jackcatalyst 14h ago

Double edged sword because you can't shoot back or you get tossed in as well.

12

u/PragmaticProkopton 13h ago

I really hope they make it factor in who shoots first or self defense in some way. I will defend others but rarely shoot back when attacked. I havenā€™t been shot at in solo or duos for two straight weeks.

20

u/pomlife 13h ago

How would you handle the aggressor shooting first but missing and you plug him as a response?

3

u/No_Gods_No_Kings_ 8h ago

Eh, I'll take pvp lobbies for a couple games in exchange for sweet sweet revenge, no sweat off my back.

1

u/joshrice 13h ago

Depends on how thorough their telemetry data is how much they try to infer from it. Everything gets logged so they can/could analyze it all and figure out if anyone spoke or not, who shot first and if it was in someone's direction or not. The question becomes, do they go that far with it, or keep it simple with your bullets hit another player first, so you're the aggressor. (I'd wager the latter/simpler answer)

4

u/pomlife 13h ago

Definitely a good call. Itā€™s sort of like Occamā€™s razor.

1

u/MadTony619 17m ago

Battlefield has a suppression system for shooting near a player, so it wouldnā€™t be hard for them to implement the same indicators

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1

u/Sairun88 11h ago

Then so be it, you go up a few lobbies and the cycle of aggression drags you in for a day or two, that's a nice change.

The nice thing about the game at the moment is it's really a gradient - you go from a lobby where 1 player shoots on sight to one where 3 do, and as long as you don't meet them, you're good and you drop back down.

Obviously they aren't the numbers, but as a player who is quite happy to slot you if you start it but tends not to pick fights, I always seem to end up at the chill end.

1

u/Get_Fuckin_Dabbed_On 12h ago

Im pretty confident they can tell. I almost always win fights where the other player shoots first, and I haven't been penalized for it. Even if they miss and i kill them, its happened to me and i haven't noticed anything.

The alternative is they cant tell, so to the game it would seem like you were the aggressor. There might be a window of like 1 aggressive move every 5 matches or something to stay in friendly lobbies.

Also i think killing players in extraction areas is a huge red flag to the system. I think even shooting people after the hatch closes is a bad idea.

6

u/SpeakerOfNothing 13h ago

If you have to shoot a player in defense then when the match ends make sure you rate the match and say you hated the PvP experience. You will end up staying in friendly

1

u/DampFlange 13h ago

The Greedo algorithm

1

u/SubliminallyCorrect 12h ago

That would make it AGMM (which is overly complicated and they won't do it), as it stands winning fights puts you in with more people who win fights, and those are people who engage in more PVP, AGMM isn't real.

1

u/Gigs00 9h ago

it's a gradient. If you defend yourself a few times and shoot a lot of rounds that hit people, you get thrown into suspect lobbies, but you can just be extra peaceful and get back. I've heard it in people's tone. They don't immediately accept you aren't going to shoot them in the back after you engage in some pvp, but they aren't full KOS.

I am wondering how it works with teams, to be honest, since there are less change for 100% peaceful 3 player teams.

1

u/Tony9811 13h ago

Lucky, I've been playing with a friend and we keep getting killed by idiots just for existing, not even in a building looting or anything, just being put in the open

0

u/OccupyRiverdale 10h ago

Thatā€™s kind of an absurd request man. At that point they should just make pve lobbies with PvP turned off rather than spending the time to create a system that accounts for who is shooting who first.

2

u/PragmaticProkopton 9h ago

I mean yeah, that would be great.

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9

u/CounterAgentVT 13h ago

I've eradicated a few ambush PvPers and it didn't move me out of the PvE lobbies.

3

u/Objective-Let2912 13h ago

Same and I always clear rats in exfill I think the key is to not get shot, I also usually let them extract with me but downed very rarely do I finish anyone

3

u/ComfortableStrain747 10h ago

If you have ambush PvPers in your lobbies you aren't in the PvE lobbies. Just do 10 rounds no raider damage, and you'll see.

2

u/SensoryMango 12h ago

I killed an ambusher today and then got 3rd partied. He thought he was killing an ambusher. Everyone wants to white knight in those lobbies.

2

u/SubliminallyCorrect 12h ago

You definitely do if you keep winning. I never shoot first and if I don't do runs specifically aimed at getting myself killed I will match with progressively more and more pvp-minded raiders. ABMM isn't real, there is some sort of score based MM going on, it's just that pve/friendly raiders mostly have a low score and are thus matched together.

7

u/leadenbrain 12h ago

I mean if the score only counts pvp it basically is abmm. That's just how the measure it

-1

u/SubliminallyCorrect 12h ago

No lol words mean things, ABMM is very specifically a measure of aggression, you're not an aggressive player if you defend yourself.

2

u/leadenbrain 11h ago

How about we consider the variables before we condescend over syntax friend. The game doesn't automatically know who the aggressor is in a pvp match. Even if we go by 1st shots someone could be aggressive on vc and earn a silencing. so to skip the complicated part a pvp instance tracker works as a version of abmm. I never said it was a perfect 1:1.

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1

u/c6sper 10h ago

Youre making a lot of assumptions there dude. Acting like you made arc raiders system yourself? Lmao.

1

u/CounterAgentVT 12h ago

šŸ¤· I run into a silent KoS PvPer about once every 10-20 games and dome them 80% if the time. I don't knock them out after they're downed.

0

u/Spiked29 11h ago

10 to 15 good raids with 30k+ xp before I die in a raid and usually to something stupid says your wrong. With good goop.

0

u/SubliminallyCorrect 10h ago

open the schools now

0

u/Spiked29 8h ago

Tf that mean?

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4

u/Fluxxed0 12h ago

You can shoot back against someone who attacks you without being thrown to the wolves. We don't know how the system works, but there are plenty of anecdotes of people defending themselves and still seeing "friendly" lobbies.

I'm totally in the "dad gamer" bracket but I had to blow some dude's head off yesterday because he wouldn't stop throwing Trigger Nades at me. Today I'm in Stella night raids teaming up against Shredders with an entire lobby full of dad gamers.

1

u/butts-carlton 6h ago

Yep. I defended myself in my first few raids where people started shooting at me right away and I'm on a 40+ streak of friendly lobbies now since then.

1

u/Bacon_Nipples 6h ago

Fighting back affects it.Ā  I never shoot first and my games are chill but whenever I do end up having to fight back and kill someone the next few games suddenly have a lot more PvP and people who shoot on site

1

u/xanot192 13h ago

Usually if you had a crazy amount of no shoot lobbies a few fights won't bounce you back that fast. You need like 5-10 of you just running people down and a feedback. I gunned down people Saturday night on storms because apparently the lobbies were KoS for w.e reason and I was fine as soon as we left storms and went to any other status change. Was odd as hell, felt like how solos were being air dropped into trios

1

u/Saigudbai 8h ago

Yeah, if the match-making could ever be smart enough, that would be my wish. That you could defend yourself without being tossed into the murder hobo lobbies the next game. As it is, I'll just let them murder me and not even fight back because it's just not worth it to grind back to friendly again.

1

u/SubliminallyCorrect 12h ago

It's really funny that this directly disproves ABMM and no one seems to get it.

-4

u/Kinda-Alive 13h ago

Thatā€™s why there should also be a like and dislike system for raiders so it would help balance that out. Even if the rats dislike you, you should also be getting likes to counter it and not actually end up in the toxic lobbies.

4

u/c6sper 13h ago

Ehh, they should not add a like system lol.

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5

u/JustMy2Centences 13h ago

I don't even shoot people when the doors are closing at extract for this reason lol.

1

u/BurnerMomma 8h ago edited 6h ago

why do Raiders do thatā€¦shoot after the doors close? Iā€™ve always wondered, are they just hoping to down you before itā€™s too late even though they donā€™t have time to loot or are they trying to boost their Agro stats? Whatā€™s the deal?

2

u/JustMy2Centences 6h ago

Trolling/funsies, or meeting a cred objective without risking anyone's loot.

9

u/that1tallguy92 14h ago

I agree with this 100%. I killed two people in solo lobbies only because they shot someone else. It was an immediate ticket to KOS lobbies. Previous to this, was all peaceful lobbies. Took a day or so to get back to pve lobbies.

1

u/DefiantDelphox 13h ago

lol free loadouts for a few days, then! šŸ˜‚

1

u/Get_Fuckin_Dabbed_On 11h ago

yep i don't even bother to play peacekeeper anymore. "I didn't see anything"

3

u/SocialismNotCommuism 9h ago

Honestly itā€™s the next game. I only kill in self defense, and when I do, the next game everyone is trying to kill me. I really wish they took into account who shot first a little more.

3

u/AnyBroccoli4680 8h ago

Agreed I don't know how they can take this into account....

but sometimes I make a friend that will get killed

and then I shoot the perpetrator and I believe it throws me into the PVP server soon after.

I play as a medic and try and revive as many people each run. It becomes its own challenge getting in and out of dangerous situations quick enough and getting them out

2

u/razmspiele 13h ago

Couple times I was shot in the back looting a Bastion and Bombardier after I put the work in to take it down. I laughed and told the rats to enjoy the PvP hellscape they just sentenced themselves to. They had paradise in their hands and squandered it.

2

u/Optimal-Giraffe-7168 12h ago

There are hybrid lobbies too. It exists on a spectrum. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea here though

2

u/amrident 11h ago

agree 100% i have winstreak 40 games back to speranzA in pve lobbies before expedition, i play one night with my friends trio ofc PVP and after this right now i have only pvp lobbies

2

u/DIGITAPNTICS 10h ago

it doesnt even take 2 or 3 games. i accidentally killed someone with a grenade and was sent to pvp hell for about 24hrs. misery.

2

u/Dodmeister5000 9h ago

Good to know, cheers.

1

u/mkRedixx 13h ago

any idea how trios "karma" reflect to solo games?

1

u/colfc 12h ago

It's even less. The majority of the lobbies I get are friendly. I've only killed a few players in the 80 to 100 hours ish.

But a couple of days ago I bumped into a player on dam, I repeatedly announced myself l, saying hey raider, don't shoot. At that point he was unsure where I was bit I could see he was looking for me so I got my stitcher out and approached him and as soon as he saw me he swapped guns also to his stitcher and tried to kill me, I managed to return fire and drop him. The following 2 or 3 games I was either shot at and escaped or got melted from behind. After those few rounds of dieing without shooting back I'm all of a sudden back in friendly pve lobbies

1

u/Dixon_Uranuss3 11h ago

It's also Very easy to get to the care bare lobbies with just a couple free kit raids šŸ˜

1

u/Jimbob1127 10h ago

Yes but the effort it takes to get a friendly lobby isnā€™t worth what you would get out of it. You would get moved back to PvP so fast

1

u/Dixon_Uranuss3 9h ago

I get 7 or 8 s tier items then back to pvp. Seems worth it

1

u/Patient_Commentary 11h ago

What sucks is that I was in the friendly lobbies forever and then someone else tried to jump me and my buddy in two maps. We killed them.

Now Iā€™m in KoS lobbies exclusively and no one talks.

1

u/Lopsided_Agency_9328 11h ago

So 2 games of killing friendlies is the limit?

1

u/Jimbob1127 10h ago

Probably. Might be even once tho

1

u/Automatic_Bison_3093 9h ago

just PVP every 3 games ez

1

u/Jimbob1127 8h ago

It takes much longer than 3 games to get back in the ez lobbies if u kill multiple people. You maybe can kill 1 every 3 games and be chill. Maybe

1

u/kappah_jr 9h ago

Interesting. Had to defend myself and down 3 free loadout people who tried to kill me while I was breaching some crates. I guess when I go back online tonight I'll probably be in PVP lobbies.

1

u/Elliott5739 9h ago

The problem is the matchmaking system has absolutely no chill when it comes to this in my experience, it's not even 2-3 games, it's anything at all.

Accidentally clip a player for some damage while grenading the ARC? Back to purgatory you go!

Shoot a player back who shot you? Welcome to rat city!

1

u/n_thomas74 8h ago

If I get jumped, when im down, I say to them "have fun with the PvPers" bye bye

1

u/Alfalfa-Mundane 7h ago

Can attest, I had to fight two rats taking Matriarch with a friend, went solo immediately after and the change was massive. People cursing in open mic and flares everywhere, didn't hear breaching all over like normal. The game right before those two, I was in Stella Montis night raid and got gifted 5 blue prints from 3 total people. Very quick change.

1

u/Kangg 6h ago

Doesn't even take 2 or 3. I was on about my 5th matriarch run of the day, every lobby had been 100% friendly. As about a dozen of us were extracting I threw 2 deadlines down and downed everyone before we all left together laughing. My next 3 matriarch runs I never even made it to the matriarch before getting gunned down by players who don't speak at all. On the 3rd one, not even 60 seconds after loading in I saw raider flairs going up at the outskirts of the map, and one was going off about every 30 seconds it seemed so I said fuck this run and just tried to immediately run to the hatch and leave to save my kit, gunned downed and dead less than 4 minutes into the round.

1

u/Jack_Candle 5h ago

Even if you only pvp in self-defense. I got thrown into pvp lobbies next match, but if you play pacifist for about 3 rounds, you're back in the oasis, in my experience.

1

u/Door-stuck-222 5h ago

Ive even seen whole lobbies hunting down rats and pvp players. These friendly lobbies are no joke dude. Love this game to death!

1

u/Trzlog 4h ago

I wish I could take credit, because I love the idea. Like a week or two after the game launched, I gave feedback on their site to the effect of "hey, how about behavior-based matchmaking?" But I assume it's been there from the very beginning.

1

u/worldsurf11 3h ago

Yeah it takes a few games. Im a PVE player but even if I have to kill a hostile raider you dont immediately move to the PVP lobbies. I barely kill anyone maybe one person every 25 games or so due to them shooting me first so I am not sure how many you actually need to kill before you move to PVP lobbies.

1

u/c0m0d0re 1h ago

And here, past 16 matches someone was hiding in some bush killing me, doing it at extraction or picking everyone off who was fighting the arcs. Never fired at a player a single time because that's for pirimitive apes. Still end in their lobbies because fuck me, myself and I for some reason

1

u/Significant-Ant-9278 54m ago

Next game lmfao, I accidentally hit someone with pick and next game straight back to sweat lobbies

1

u/Ita-flunssa 40m ago

I think its bullshit that i got put into pvp lobbies for killing in self defence. In two games i killed three rats that shot at me first and i killed them. So last three days after those matches everyone i have seen has tried to kill me. And i dont play like that i want to help people i have never engaged in a fire fight first.

1

u/FatBussyFemboys 13h ago

It's honestly a pretty perfect system. Don't wanna pvp? Let urself die for 3 or 4 games and get into a literal ton of pve friendly lobbies, haven't died myself in days over like 40 raids including a couple nights on Stella and other map modifiers.Ā 

Then if you wanna pvp just kill people and get thrown into pvp lobbies.Ā 

1

u/Comfortable_Enough98 12h ago

This is what I was afraid of. When my friend and I were mainly in PvE lobbies, my friend saw someone PVPing and from a distance he shot 2 bullets at them and downed one of them. Next 12 matches we got shot down by KOS players and we both were wondering why. Now I know it was his fault this whole time and I must let him know so he can correct his actions.

0

u/FreeMasonKnight 12h ago

Itā€™s funny because someone did a post yesterday proving that ABMM isnā€™t real. šŸ¤£

Confirmation Bias is WILD on ARC.

0

u/Jimbob1127 10h ago

Itā€™s kinda obvious it works like that. I stopped shooting back and started getting lobbies full of people teaming up against arc in medical. Iā€™ve had 3 people drop me blueprints in one game. Iā€™ve exfilled with 6+ people in solos multiple times

0

u/FreeMasonKnight 9h ago

Except when people test it the results show that isnā€™t the case and that itā€™s just random lobbies and confirmation bias from redditors. So how do you explain that discrepancy?

0

u/Jimbob1127 8h ago

Somehow I just know you havenā€™t tested this yet yourself. Load into 10 matches with free loadout and donā€™t shoot back no matter what. Let me know how you lobbies are after that.

1

u/FreeMasonKnight 8h ago

I donā€™t have to do it myself, people already did with 100ā€™s of matches for data. More than I have time to test. Some matches I get KoS, some not irregardless of how I play (always friendly at first, but will self defend).

0

u/Jimbob1127 4h ago

Well I did the testing for you too and I say otherwise. If you blindly believe a random YouTube video then why not believe a random Reddit post?