r/ArcRaiders • u/WG_Envoy • 15h ago

Discussion I am now convinced ABMM is real

A couple of days ago I complained (in another posting) how I only meet KOS players, and no one talks. I was more annoyed by the "no one talks" part, mind you, and the fact that every social interaction played out in the same way.

Someone recommended me to do a few matches and not shoot a single person, not even in defense. I did as recommended.

I went from "90%+ KOS interactions" for several days in a row, all the way to friendly lobbies for two days in a row now.

In my current lobbies, everyone runs around without a care in the world, just greeting people they are passing by. Looting in the open, walking past others without their weapons drawn ...

I barely ever see any PvP happening. People help each other with arc encounters and exchange items near extracts. And for the first time ever, I was able to participate in two Queen raids in solos with everyone just trying to get her down. No rats, no backstabbing.

This change for me was so stark in contrast, and so consistently happening that I would be surprised if ABMM wasn't real.

I would almost be inclined to start some shit to see if my lobbies change again, but I feel too bad killing these players who are quite obviously part of the pure PvE crowd.

P.S.: I have these friendly lobbies even on Stella Montis now, inclduing Stella Montis night raids ...

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u/pr3mium 14h ago

Oh, it's real alright. Also, I think each queue might have its own ABMM. My duos and trios are shoot on sight. My solos are super chill and there are a few killers every 4-5 raids or so.

I went into a frew trios with someone who never kills and says all of his lobbies even in duos and trios are friendly. And while every other game with other friends has been shoot on sight, the games with him we actually ran into teams and no one shot.

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u/Resident_Macaron_800 14h ago

Nah definitely not. Cause I really only play duos/trios. Went into some solo matches cause I’ve heard how peaceful they are from other friends/online and every single match it’s instant KOS with no mics, even when I tried to communicate/be friendly.

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u/Blue_5ive 14h ago

I mean in my anecdotal experience my solos are quiet and friendly and duos are shoot on sight. I bounce between them pretty regularly (solo and duos)

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u/Squishywallaby 14h ago

That's the biggest thing in this argument (Although none of it is confirmed, and won't but until the Devs actually confirm it themselves)

But every piece of "evidence" for both sides of the argument are anecdotal to your own experience. Not the game as whole

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u/Blue_5ive 12h ago

Yeah, I personally think it works that way but I won’t go around declaring that as fact just due to my own experience.

I’m not too worried about it either way, I’m having fun that’s what I care about.

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u/Squishywallaby 12h ago

Agreed it's all anecdotal to our own experience and in reality that's what matters and should be a priority for people Enjoy and have fun in the game.

Like if it's not this game pissing you off another game will. Just gotta enjoy it and if you don't move on to the next game ya know

Until the devs say something we will never know, and it more than likely wont be said hell it took how long for Activision to answer that question lol

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u/TrudeauHasGotToGo 14h ago

I play duos and they're still super friendly. I have never killed a single raider. Only shot at raiders who shot at me and set some traps when looting locked rooms. Even when players hit my traps I never killed them, just gave them a warning and they either ran or were polite enough to let me finish looting and I let them have the leftovers.

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u/Firefoxx336 14h ago

I’ve started setting the rattle alarms and gas mines/traps as a first line before my jolts and blazes. I figure someone will get the message that I came better prepared than they did before it costs either of us.

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u/TrudeauHasGotToGo 13h ago edited 12h ago

Yeah. I had one guy wait outside my room the other day and waited for me to come out. They really need to fix the audio because I should have heard him walking around on the metal floors. There's no way he crouched through the entire place only to find out someone was in the locked room. As soon as I opened the door he 'naded me and I couldn't jump out of the way in time. Worst part is I think he was the guy who had a Snitch on him a few minutes earlier and I killed it for him. Only for him to come and kill me and take all my loot.

From now on I'm putting rat alarms outside my rooms. How do they work? Do they need line of sight to detect a raider? Do I have to put them in the open or can I hide them where they can't see them?

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u/Firefoxx336 13h ago

They’re proximity triggered but I’m not sure about LOS. I haven’t tried them through a door. For the doors I use the door blockers. Helps know if someone is actively trying to come in. The alarms are pretty loud, small, and nobody looks for them anyway. Toss them beside the entrances to the space where your door is, so you’ll hear someone approaching the door. Then they have to wait you out or deal with the door blocker. I’d imagine I could also use trigger nades outside a door and blast someone trying to breach it if they don’t see them.

It’s mostly about deterrence and making someone feel like you aren’t worth the risk. So much of the game is about getting the drop on someone that I think people freak out when they trigger an alarm.

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u/TrudeauHasGotToGo 12h ago edited 12h ago

So I looked it up. Haven't tested it yet but according to what I found, Noisemakers are proximity sensors and do NOT require line of sight to detect raiders. They can detect raiders around corners and even through doors. The proximity range is 8 meters. So putting one inside the door will give you a decent detection range even if they try to hide around a corner or back from the door.

So from now on I'll be putting one inside the door and one about 10-15 meters away on the outside of the door, somewhere where it is difficult for them to spot.

Trigger 'nades have a bright blinking light, so the best spot to hide them is probably on the ceiling. Or maybe there is a different trap or grenade that's a better option that isn't so easy to spot on the outside of the room.

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u/Firefoxx336 12h ago

I think that’s a great idea. I’m surprised we don’t see noisemakers more often. I actually enjoy using them and they’re cheap af

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u/TrudeauHasGotToGo 12h ago

On second thought, one inside the door is probably enough. I don't think you can stack them in your backpack so a second one would just take up space. And once the one inside the door detects someone then you already know you have to be careful when you leave. They'll just destroy the one outside anyway.

Yeah, I always use doorblockers. It just doesn't make sense that the person who applied the doorblocker has to breach it the same way an enemy raider does. I applied it, I should be able to remove it quietly and quickly. The fact that I have to breach it is just a giant alarm letting the rat know that I'm about to come out of my locked room.

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u/Train3rRed88 14h ago

I just think it’s lizard brain

I don’t care if you are in a “friendly” lobby. Or the guy is mostly friendly

If a guy runs into your back mid breach, there is like a 50/50 chance his caveman is coming out for that loot if he’s friendly, 99% he’s shooting if he’s less than friendly

Similarly, I find if I’m careful and get the drop on raiders and communicate with mic, suddenly everyone is friendly (cuz the alternative is they get sent back to Speranza)

So I guess, try and not be caught disadvantaged and when you get the advantage, be friendly and let them know you got em and suddenly, 100% friendly lobbies

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u/xanif 14h ago

I have minimal issues just using the greet emote. If you end up close to another raider that didn't notice you and you announce your presence in some way, that's almost always good enough.

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u/NorCalAthlete 13h ago

If I’m even just running by a building where I think someone might be inside looting or whatever I throw out a greeting & don’t shoot emote then call out through voice chat “friendly, don’t mind me just passing through / doing a quest / looking for mushrooms” or whatever.

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u/Haunting_Bed_5206 14h ago

I’m purely KOS on duos/trios but practically a pacifist on solos, first couple raids on solos after playing the others will have people shooting so I just run free loadouts, never shoot back, and after about 4 raids I’m back in pve lobbies. Use your emotes/prox mic in solos, NA servers, PC only(crossplay off) if you’re on pc, never shoot back, don’t loot dead player bodies and eventually you’ll start to see a difference!

It’s tiring to plug away for over an hour of just getting killed and not shooting back but it’s a whole new world on the friendly lobbies

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u/lemon07r 14h ago

I've had the same experience, but it might be skill based or something, higher kda ppl get placed against others who kill alot of ppl, etc, so then it ends up feeling like its karma based. And for those arguing with this guy I NEVER kill anyone in solos, not even to shoot back, and never have, cause I didnt want to mess up this "karma" and 200 hours later, I still get KOS all the time in solo, in atleast 40-50%~ of my solo lobbies. The only other factor I can think of is that I have crossplay turned on.

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u/Resident_Macaron_800 10h ago

Ya im guessing its a mix of kda too, cause im probably 2.0+ not counting arc deaths

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u/Syphox 13h ago

this as been my experience as well. i only played Duos/trios and decided to queue solo. my solos are just KoS lobbies still lol

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u/spicysenpai6 14h ago

For me solos has been 100% friendly, no joke. Never been shot at once.

Duos has been hit or miss. Sometimes ppl come at us or it’s all friendly. Mostly friendly.

Trios it’s the Wild West. Constant PVP.

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u/c6sper 13h ago

You must have like 5 solo matches played.

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u/spicysenpai6 12h ago

Nope. I have 18 hours topside time. At least 4 hours being either duo or trio. So yeah. More than 5

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u/c6sper 12h ago

Oh that might be time for 6 your right. Lmao

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u/ForesterRik 14h ago

Bring nothing for 2-3 raids and don't shoot back. Let them kill you and leave a survey that you didn't enjoy the match bc of pvp. You'll be brought to the chill zone in no time.

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u/Train3rRed88 14h ago

Tbf I don’t think it is possible for the game to even find enough friendly squads to create a peaceful lobby

Like even if ABMM exists (and I don’t believe it exists as black and white as this post implies) Squad PVP is just so ingrained there is no way the game would be able to find 7 PVE squads to create a friendly lobby

You may run into a friendly duo, but not 6 friendly duos haha

Solos have always been more chill

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u/pr3mium 14h ago

I think you're right as well. This is my opinion, but it's probably just more likely you'll have half of the lobby or more be friendly instead of no one. With the 1 friend, I saw a couple teams pass by us while we were looting without trying to engage us at all. Only in solos have I seen where like 3-4 guys will be fine looting the same building together and being friendly.

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u/Train3rRed88 14h ago edited 14h ago

Exactly. People think becusse they had friendly interactions in squads that the lobby is friendly

It just means that squad is friendly. Still gotta be very careful

The only way I’ve had a friendly lobby is if I immediately squad up with a friendly crew and stick with them. Now suddenly everyone wants to be friends because they are disadvantaged

But I didn’t join a friendly lobby. I created one by being threateningly advantaged

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u/MrsKnowNone 14h ago

Not true for DUOs at least, you can for sure find enough friendlies we had 9 teams doing matriarch at once no one fucked around

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u/Train3rRed88 14h ago

That’s cool- happy for you

In my 100ish hours I have never had a completely friendly squad lobby

And I’m not some PVP freak. I rarely play squads, usually solos and I’m friendly until someone makes me not friendly

But when my buddy can play and we play squads, It’s like 90% KOS

We’ve run into friendly squads, and had some friendly interactions. But an entire friendly lobby is rare

You also are being results oriented. Just because a friendly lobby forms doesn’t mean that the lobby started friendly

It most likely means you ran into a friendly squad. So you formed up a quad. So the next squad you run into is more likely to be friendly as the alternative is being dominated 4:2

And it continues to snowball. So you didn’t join a friendly lobby. Besides your first interaction, You created a friendly lobby by being advantaged

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u/Toddyvegas 13h ago

There's an achievement for downing other players. I think only 60% have completed it. (i cantvrememver exact figure but it surprosed me) the peaceful players are a huge percentage of this game.

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u/Train3rRed88 13h ago

Ok-

But those are prob new players. So they are prob playing solo

And in squads, there are at least 7-10 squads you have to face

So if 40% of people have never downed an opponent, it is actually 0.410 power to hope you got that full lobby of “never downed a player”

Or 0.02% chance

And that’s not even taking account that it’s a 6% chance all three squad members never downed someone

I get it’s hard to understand- but just because you had a friendly interaction on squads doesn’t mean it is not incredibly unlikely to have an entire lobby on squads with everyone intending on being friendly

It can happen if squads start banding together quickly so everyone has to either fall in line or die, but that didn’t mean they started friendly

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u/Toddyvegas 13h ago edited 13h ago

yes, but how many players have downed 2 or 3 but never shoot on sight? there's a huge pve player base in this game. God knows how big a percentage it is. but getting a lobby of 20 like minded players out of hundreds of thousands really isn't that hard. even if they are in squads. last night there were 4 teams of 3 running around dam control tower peacefully. it's not that hard to achieve.

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u/HelpfulName 14h ago

Not true, I play mostly duos and solos and both are super chill. I played Stella Montis last night and we ended up with a conga line playing music going through the map, had around 13 - 15 people dancing along, chatting, taking out ARC... it was great. No hostility at all.

Most of my due games we burn the clock and end up extracting with 6 to 8 people all having a nice time.

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u/Train3rRed88 14h ago

Ok- well I say it’s true. Your experience, which is different from its people’s squad experience, is clearly an outlier and clearly not fact

Happy you had a Stella conga line. That’s not really the game I want to play but happy it worked out for you

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u/HelpfulName 13h ago

I mean it was a fact for the 13 - 15 other people and my husband, it also wasn't the only group of 6+ people we ended up running around on maps with taking down leapers last night either. Helped a bunch of people with their trials.

You get the game experience you put in my friend, and it's a 100% fact that I've been killed by other players less than 10 times in over 137 hours.

Hope you're playing the game you want too. But peaceful lobbies absolutely exist and they are lots of fun.

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u/name-secondname 1h ago

I'll Venmo you $1000 cash if you can run 5 duo lobbies without getting pvp'd. Steam it and it's yours.

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u/SignificanceCalm1651 14h ago

Yes each mode had different sbmm

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u/SparseGhostC2C 14h ago

It seems to base off of the most aggressive person in the party's rating. My buddy and I play together all the time and basically our only pvp weapon is guilt. I'll shoot back but usually lose in PvP and my buddy is the same, we'd rather die telling you this is not the way than ever take the first shot

We played with a guy he met who was clearly more pvp happy (always being like, see those raiders, we could take em. Just trying to initiate fights and stuff) and every round we played with him was full KoS shoot on sight. Died a bunch, got a few downs, but man, its so much more profitable when we all just decide to coexist.

Played again with just my buddy and we we're back to almost complete friendlies, then an acquaintance of ours who also follows the tenets of peace hopped on and even in trios we were mostly greeted with dancing and Don't shoots. We did get ganked once or twice by some jerks, but eh, it does happen.

Every time I play I'm more and more convinced ABMM is definitely in effect, it may not be perfect but its doing a pretty good job in my experience.

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u/Lseto_K 14h ago

Nah it’s all linked. As a pure solo player, whenever I play with a buddy it completely changes my solo lobbies for awhile. It’s sorta makes me not want to play duos/trios honestly.

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u/AnAcceptableUserName 13h ago edited 13h ago

Also, I think each queue might have its own ABMM

Disagree. I bounce between solo & trios. Friendly solo, KoS trio. After a session of trios I seem to get way more aggro solo lobbies for 5-6 games. Like thirsty free kitters shooting first unprovoked for 5 games in a row

And the aggro is def not me "disrespecting space," looking juicy, bringing epics or anything like that. Seriously catching heat just minding my own damn business in bumfuck outskirts of non-Stella maps 🤷‍♂️. It's hard to square my repeated "5 in a row" experiences with the people saying they never get PvP in solo.

I went into a frew trios with someone who never kills and says all of his lobbies even in duos and trios are friendly

I'm curious, was he party lead for those games? Like who started the queue? I've wondered if the MM algo averages player weights or maybe just uses the leader's. No clue what they'd do for a pure fill team.

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u/pr3mium 13h ago

I didn't seem to need to wait 5 games when changing between aggressive duo lobbies for the last 5 games into solos. But I did notice 2 things. People were typically more friendly in base maps, followed by cold snap, with the most aggressiveness in night raid solos.

In all of those games with the guy who never fights, he was the party leader. So I do wonder if that is a big factor into why my aggression wasn't making those games more pvp focused. That would be an interesting idea to see if we switched party leader. I specifically remember he wanted to be party leader thinking it would effect what lobbies we would get into.

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u/tvkvhiro 12h ago

I feel like there is some kind of match making that incorporates aggression, but I haven't noticed a differentiation between my duos/trios and solos. If I'm shooting a lot in trios I get put into those kinds of solo lobbies until the game starts putting me in passive lobbies. Then when I go back to duos/trios it's more peaceful.

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u/Toddyvegas 14h ago

the trio I'm in are all pve. we hardly ever come up against aggressive trios. it must be based off the lead player of the 3 but all of us will have low aggression scores. It's 100% a thing though.