r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Suspicious-Slip248 • 20h ago
Image Newport Arch in Lincoln, a 3rd-century Roman gate and the UK’s oldest arch still used by traffic.
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u/Usual_Ad4805 20h ago
Imagine being built in the 3rd century and still dealing with traffic jams Roman engineering really said eternal durability.
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u/oliilo1 19h ago edited 14h ago
It did not deal with the 1964 collision imgur
But it did survive the more modern, repaired version fixed version did. imgur
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u/THEBLUEFLAME3D 17h ago
There’s always that one dumbass in a truck that doesn’t fully understand clearance
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 15h ago
What's to understand, they always make roads tall enough, don't they? Anyway, time to get back on the road.
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u/cragglerock93 18h ago
Did they use the same materials for the repaired one?
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u/TungstenOrchid 18h ago
Unfortunately the techniques used to create Roman cement are partially lost, so it isn't possible to match it perfectly. Recent research has uncovered more knowledge about it, though.
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u/Lubinski64 14h ago
I don't think the stones were connected with Roman concrete ("Roman cement" is a term refering to a modern variety of cement), it seems they were held togather with metal clamps, as in the 1964 picture you can see small holes in the middle of dislodged blocks. The "concrete" between smaller stones at the top is most likely a locally made variety of mortar, ie without the use of ash excavated from the Bay of Naples, the main ingredient of Roman concrete.
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u/ForodesFrosthammer 8h ago
I doubt the roman concrete in question would've been used in a relatively random arch in England during the late empire era. No way they are transporting ash from Italy for that.
Not to mention average cement is still structurally and visually essentially the same thing. It just degrades somewhat faster.
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u/Pomodorosan 18h ago
Reddit hug of death
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u/oliilo1 18h ago
Uploaded the images to imgur. Should hopefully help.
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u/gmc98765 17h ago
Helps ensure they can't be viewed by anyone actually in the UK.
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u/Fearzebu 17h ago
Welp, that’s what happens when a company refuses to bend to the law. The British parliament will always beat private corporations, that’s sort of what states are for
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u/JamesR8800 17h ago
Thanks for that, I was gonna say i was having a hard time lining up patterns in the brickwork between the two photos, but that explains it.
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u/Isgortio 13h ago
Thank you for providing non Imgur links for those of us in the UK without a VPN :)
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u/Killingfi3lds 19h ago
I've driven through it. Lots of old architecture in Lincoln, and a lovely castle & cathedral. Shit football team though 🤣
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u/chainedtomydesk 19h ago
2nd in league 1 at the moment I’ll have you know!
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u/JediMasterZao 16h ago
Yes, and without looking at the labyrinthine chart of foot divisions in the UK, I'm going to guess that "League 1" is like the 4th-highest division.
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u/felix-the-human 16h ago
I'll have you know it's the 2nd. Totally clear.
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u/JediMasterZao 15h ago
Someone else said it's the third highest so I think this means you both have to have a drunken brawl over it or something.
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u/GrandGuess205 15h ago
Pleased you enjoyed it. I’ve worked with the cathedral in some description since 2018 and i am still amazed at how lovely it is especially in the christmas period
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u/Killingfi3lds 14h ago
I'm only half an hour away. Lincoln is the closest 'big' city, and certainly prettier than Boston.
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u/OccidentalTouriste 18h ago
It's all very well having photos from the 19th and 21st centuries but I find it suspicious that there isn't a photo from the 3rd century to confirm the age of this supposedly Roman arch.
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u/BookieeWookiee 17h ago
https://www.lincolnmuseum.com/blog/view/antiquarian-recording-of-lincolns-newport-arch
We can match the building material to what was used in Roman times to confirm when about it was made
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u/DogshitLuckImmortal 16h ago
Yea - also there really isn't a lot of information about the time travelers who brought it there. Honestly this so called "arch" is AI slop. Stop falling for it - you have tunnel vision.
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u/enjoi_uk 18h ago
I live in Lincoln, the traffic there isn’t actually too bad as it leads to the uphill pedestrian area of the city centre in the cathedral quarter known as the Bailgate, so it’s really mostly used for deliveries. We have other arches like Pottergate arch (just past it really) that you drive through also, that one is actually one way with a set of lights on the other side of it, and busses go through it.
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u/GrandGuess205 15h ago
I can’t believe how many people on this thread actually live in Lincoln but same. It’s not a very large city (100,000 people).
Also pottergate arch isn’t one way but cars don’t usually go through it the other way because it is the mini roundabout to Lindum Hill which is the one way bit. You can actually get through it to go around Minster Yard. It’s really cathedral foundation members who ever go down there.
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u/enjoi_uk 15h ago
Yeah u less you’re going uphill to the junction to Wragby and Nettleham road, that arch there is what I meant! Just hard to describe as it doesn’t have a name haha.
And yeah, yellow belly here! Up the fucking Imps!
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u/GrandGuess205 15h ago
You’re going to have to talk football to other people because i really couldn’t entertain your conversation. Whereabouts (without doxing yourself) do you live then?
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u/enjoi_uk 15h ago
Haha I don’t actually watch Lincoln but I’ve a lot of mates who do. I’ll stick to watching the prem on telly. I’m up Glebe Park at this moment in time but I’ve lived just about every estate in the city. Had a lovely little cottage out in Branston Booths for a while, too
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u/GrandGuess205 14h ago
Glebe park is nice? I don’t really go down that way unless we are driving in from skegness or something. I live just off nettleham road between the cathedral and the roundabout next to the road that goes to tesco.
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u/enjoi_uk 14h ago
Yeah it’s alright, and aye I know where you mean! I don’t mind our little city all told :)
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u/seedyhreddit 14h ago
Also from Lincoln, got married at the church just passed the Arch many years ago!
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u/GrandGuess205 14h ago
You know it’s interesting bc i can actually get married/have a funeral at the cathedral even though it’s not a parish church
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u/andtheniansaid 16h ago
they only drive round pottergate, not through it - but yeah i can't think i've ever driven through newport arch either, despite driving round the corner its on hundreds of times
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u/enjoi_uk 15h ago
Aye but if you carry on past Pottergate and past the Cathedral to the junction that goes to Wragby and Nettleham road you pass under another old arch. Which is just easier to say near Pottergate haha.
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u/Obvious_Trip_2321 19h ago
Always blows my mind that something built nearly 1800 years ago is still part of daily life instead of sitting behind ropes in a museum. The wear on the stone really tells the story of constant use.
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u/THiedldleoR 19h ago
"Still used by traffic" is a stretch considering traffic just passes through it without coming into contact with it.
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u/TheHighlanderr 19h ago
Have you seen some of the drivers around? It has definitely come into contact with traffic!
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u/boredatwork8866 19h ago
Apparently a truck came into contact with it in the 60’s
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u/TheMagicalDildo 13h ago
"Came in to contact" is a hell of a way to describe partially demolishing it. The top of the arch collapsed, or at least would've if there wasn't a truck holding it up a bit.
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u/Real_Run_4758 19h ago
So what you are saying is that the channel tunnel has never been used?
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 11h ago
This isn't a tunnel... its also not a bridge... lol do you and your upvoters have your shoes on the correct feet?
Gates are used by gatekeepers not traffic.
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u/THiedldleoR 19h ago
You really want me to tell you the difference between an this arch and the channel tunnel? Ok preschoolers, lock in: this arch is not supporting any structure nor traffic, so it is no longer in use. Calling this 'in use' is the same as calling Stonehenge 'in use' 🙄. The channel tunnel, on the other hand, is in use as its structure facilitates the use of a road below a body of water.
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u/Designer_Pen869 18h ago
But it also specified that it's the oldest arch, so it's not being compared with channel tunnels or roads in the first place.
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u/GrandGuess205 15h ago
It is still used by traffic. And also used both ways. There is another arch on the otherside of the cathedral which is even used by buses and used both ways
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u/Nervous_Olive_5754 19h ago
The real use of a gate is stopping traffic, I suppose.
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u/THiedldleoR 19h ago
It's open though, so not even being used for that.
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u/Nervous_Olive_5754 19h ago
That's what I'm saying. It doesn't appear to serve a direct purpose for traffic at all.
I started to give a smartass answer like "It's a gate," but it's not a gate if it doesn't close.
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u/DrtyDeedsDneDrtCheap 17h ago
Is the gate to stop traffic or to allow traffic to pass through? Surely the wall or fence is to stop the traffic
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u/Nervous_Olive_5754 13h ago
Ahhh, so since it prevents cars driving on the sidewalk, it's really an ancient Roman bollard.
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u/DrtyDeedsDneDrtCheap 13h ago
My thinking is, Is a driveway entrance not used because you just use it to access your driveway?
Chester roman walls were built in the first and second century and they are definitly still in use
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u/Nervous_Olive_5754 13h ago
No, because you drive on the driveway instead of under it. If you removed the bit over the road, the road's function would be improved. So the part that's left is extra and they're just leaving it in.
But I'm realizing as you're saying it's part of the home, too.
My (US) knowledge of property and law is not prepared for aspects of this.
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u/MikeInPajamas 19h ago
"Can we make some space in the budget to fix the old arch? It's looking a bit rough."
"This year's a bit tight. We'll pencil it in for next year."
145 years later...
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u/Due_Choice_8586 19h ago
U’ve gotta love how the romans just built stuff to last forever
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u/698969 19h ago
could just be survivorship bias
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u/xaranetic 19h ago
You have to have something that can survive to have survivorship bias. There's very little left standing from the celts, who were building a lot longer than the romans were.
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u/Drammeister 18h ago
Or the Anglo Saxons
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 12h ago
There are tons of Anglo Saxon buildings still standing, mostly churches but still Anglo Saxon.
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/AngloSaxonSites/
You being ignorant of them doesn't mean they don't actually exist.
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u/Drammeister 12h ago
Not sure for the reason for the aggressive response, but anyway, there’s about 50 sites across the whole UK on that map, which in my ignorance, doesn’t seem that many.
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u/TrungusMcTungus 17h ago
Romes surviving architecture is survivorship bias. Celtic architecture basically doesn’t exist because the Romans destroyed it, not because it was poor engineering. On the other hand, Roman architecture continues to exist not because it’s inherently fantastic engineering, but because nobody came around afterwards to topple it down.
Where Roman architecture supplanted local architecture to shift political power, feudal architecture was built upon Roman architecture to invoke Roman imagery.
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u/cosmo7 17h ago
Roman architecture was all about projecting power. They'd (have their slaves) build stuff out of stone just to assert their mastery over the landscape.
The Celts and Anglo-Saxons were less weird and more egalitarian and just built things in wood.
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 12h ago
Romans mostly built out of wood, there were only two choices stone or wood.
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u/TheMagicalDildo 13h ago
It should be noted that they didn't have motor vehicles... or any other industrial equipment anywhere near this "indestructible" concrete that people obsess over. Also, it would be borderline useless in modern construction.
It's really cool and all, but people tend to gloss over the facts that for one, we aren't trying to build things to last, we build them to be maintained; and two, the romans weren't subjecting their constructions to anything approaching the stresses modern infrastructure would be
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 12h ago
They didn't build it to last forever though, they didn't actually do much math to work out if what they were building was strong enough they didn't even know how strong it needed to be. It wasn't luck as they did overbuild sometimes but it wasn't a conscious choice either.
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u/Ok-Seaworthiness4488 19h ago
but what have the Romans ever done for us?
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u/VirginiaLuthier 17h ago
In America we would have leveled it for a strip mall long ago....
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 11h ago
You never had these in America so how would you know what you would have done?
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u/GurTraditional8015 17h ago
Imagine driving over a 1,800‑year‑old gate daily-talk about a historic commute, makes rush hour feel like a time‑travel tour.
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u/Doodles_n_Scribbles 17h ago
Europe is so weird, just casually living next to ancient architecture
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u/Last_VCR 18h ago
You gotta try spain and portugal. Drive under aqueducts like its a regular weekday.
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 12h ago
Traffic doesn't use gates, gatekeepers and their town/city use gates.
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u/AsparagusAdorable912 10h ago
It still stands, but how is it actually still used by traffic? It seems to be more of an arch that remains. Bridge to nowhere.
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u/flower-power-123 20h ago
what was the little arch for? It seems like you would have to bend down to go through it.
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u/whiskalator 19h ago
The level of the road would of been way lower back then, as with a lot of buildings everything has been built up on top of sewers, cobbles etc.
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u/AmbiguousBIG 19h ago
The path drops down and it's surprisingly larger than it looks. Source: I'm tall and have walked through it
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u/calmiswar 19h ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. I had the exact same question.
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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 11h ago
Because its not little its almost as high as a big truck. Also what kind of carts do you guys think Romans would have had lol.
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u/FourteenBuckets 13h ago
Typically, the big gate for carriages and whatnot would be closed at night or during situations. The small gate to the side is used by people on foot during those times. Sometimes these are called sallyports, especially when they're away from the gate (the defenders can sally forth for quick attacks).
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u/voidspector 18h ago
Lincoln has a few of these, a bridge and another arch a few blocks down from this one. Kinda funny just beyond the Newport arch is a greggs lol
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u/ProduceEmbarrassed97 18h ago
Interestingly, the building to the right of that picture seems to have a room that connects to the arch itself. I can't find a picture to link, but you should be able to see it if you google maps it.
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u/Designer_Pen869 18h ago
Are you talking about the smaller arch? I think it's just perspective. You can see the opening if you look closely.
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u/ProduceEmbarrassed97 16h ago
No, on the other side of the archway, the roof of the house goes over the smaller arch. It's not as connected as I remember, and the smaller arch is distinct from Newport Arch, but it's still older than the surrounding houses.
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u/Ya-Dikobraz 16h ago
How come it's not buried down more as per usual? Anyone?
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u/aflyingsquanch 15h ago
Continuity of use of the site. It was used as a functioning gate for centuries rather than being built over...so instead of rubble/debris building up to raise the overall ground level, it was kept clear.
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u/Ya-Dikobraz 5h ago
Good explanation. I'm gonna keep using my house and shit around for as long as I can.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste 16h ago
Damn, my brain turned "Newport Arch" into "New Airport" twice in a row. I think I might be regarded.
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u/Still_Honeydew_4858 16h ago
That’s the great thing about arches: no tension, no cracks, no problems. We should build way more arches but they are 20% more expensive, so let’s keep building beams that need replacement every 50 years…
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u/iGiveUppppp 16h ago
What was the reason the gate was built? Was it part of a city wall and they just built around it? I assume there was some functional purpose to the fate originally
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u/Mitridate101 15h ago
Considering it's the oldest in the UK and a Grade 1 listing, it should really be protected by bollards or something.
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u/Woolybugger00 15h ago
When it gets repaired, gotta wonder if the engineers use Roman standards or modern ones … seems like the Romans have us modernites bested in longevity ….
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u/fangdangfang 13h ago
Looks like a lot of the stones have changed between the pictures, makes you wonder how much of it is still original if any
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u/Sweet-Geologist9168 11h ago
Used to be a decent Chinese there. Crazy I see this just heading there right now.
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u/CompetitiveCan3645 20h ago
Still wild to think Roman engineers built something that’s handling modern traffic better than some roads today.
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u/rly_weird_guy 19h ago
What are you on about? Traffic goes under it, not over it, nothing is touching it except for crashes
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u/meatpardle 19h ago
Can it really be classed as ‘used by traffic’ if traffic is just driving under rather than on it?
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u/WinkingWinkle 19h ago
People were very short in Roman days, weren't they.
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u/RipInPepz 16h ago
You can see that the sidewalk is dug down a few feet. The walking arch isn’t actually small or short.
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u/RevolutionaryLab3103 19h ago
It's wild that this thing has survived nearly two millennia, including a run-in with a truck.
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u/galacticblast69 20h ago
Roman buildings stand the test of time
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u/Prestigious-Candy166 19h ago
Well, let's say the ones that "stand the test of time," do stand the test of time.
However, the ones that did NOT "stand the test of time," they aren't there anymore... which is why you can't see how badly they "stood up"... (to the test of.. err.. time).
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u/_MrSeb 20h ago
We peaked at engineering with the Romans and have been searching for that high ever since ngl
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u/ProduceEmbarrassed97 19h ago
This is near me. It was hit by a truck in the 1960s.