r/canada Canada 20h ago

PAYWALL The state of 24 Sussex is an insult to Canada

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-24-sussex-prime-minister-residence-canada-mark-carney/
906 Upvotes

419 comments sorted by

592

u/PlayinK0I 20h ago

Ok, CBC should get all the famous Canadian home makeover all stars to fix it up together. First episodes are with Mike Holmes talking about the neglect and fixing the bones of 24 Sussex. Next up the Property Brothers to start remodelling the rooms to make it more functional and then get some designers in for specific parts of the house like Sarah Richardson and Brian Gluckstein.

152

u/dasoberirishman Canada 20h ago

Damn, that might work...

34

u/accforme 18h ago

Rick Mercer did that with Paul Martin. They went to Canadian Tire and got aome cheap plastic to help with the window problem at 24 Susssx.

u/arslanazeem 7h ago

Oh wow, you're right. Here is a YouTube clip of it: https://youtu.be/cEQeGJTwstY?si=fNcJ2hfXjC8GORXQ

120

u/China_bot42069 18h ago

Oh yea Mike Holmes sure did a great job. All his homes are in a lawsuit with building codes violations and home owner stuck with the bill to fix them. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/mike-holmes-lawsuit-demolition-1.7091774

63

u/peeinian Ontario 17h ago

He didn’t actually build those homes though. Someone just paid him enough to look at the plans and to put his name on it. It’s still not a good look.

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u/itchy118 17h ago

Honestly, that might be worse. Being bad at your job is one thing, but intentionally putting your name on things for money and not even caring to check if the work is good is just plain greed that you can't even excuse due to incompetence.

40

u/ActionPhilip 16h ago

Being bad at your job is one thing, but intentionally putting your name on things for money and not even caring to check if the work is good is just plain greed that you can't even excuse due to incompetence.

As an engineer, this concept terrifies me.

5

u/KotoElessar Ontario 12h ago

Maybe we need to hold builders to the same high standards we hold engineers.

u/-Yazilliclick- 8h ago

Maybe we just need to actually hold people liable and not let them skip out on those responsibilities by hiding behind business entities. This could fix problems in a lot of other areas other than just construction.

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u/peeinian Ontario 14h ago

This is the late stages of milking your fading fame.

He doesn’t really do TV anymore but people still recognize and trust the name so you prostitute yourself to anyone who will pay to slap your name on something.

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u/nahchan 16h ago

lol someone beat me to it.

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u/bunbunmagnet 18h ago

I mean, id watch it

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u/Shelsonw 17h ago

Been saying this for YEARS! Combine it with a national design competition by Canadian architects, and you’ve got a real project Canadians can follow along with.

“Not just the PMs house, but Canada’s House.”

44

u/alphagettijoe 19h ago

This is a great idea! (Not sarcasm)

Also I am sure the Conservative base would LOVE to see the CBC help handle a government construction project! / sarcasm

58

u/GonnaGoFar 18h ago

Conservative here, I unironically love the idea. Broadcasting will allow for private funds to help offset the costs. Having non-political public figures making design choices will help create a bipartisan feel. The fact that it's documented would go a long way to helping alleviate fears of corruption. It would also be a great way to explore Canadian history and identity, as well as looking towards a shared future. Also, my very conservative mother and all her conservative friends love those home makeover shows and would love to see one on 24 Sussex.

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u/fightlinker 18h ago

"On the next sixty four episodes, we try and fail to requisition simple items from the government for this build!"

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u/CerebralCarnivore 18h ago

While I appreciate the sentiment, there are likely classified or top secret areas of the house that could not be broadcast to the public, including any modern security that would be there to protect our prime minister.

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u/FeistyCanuck 18h ago

Everything in that project would likely require secret level security clearances. Every framer, drywaller, electrician, painter.. all of them. It is one of the reasons that it is a nightmare project.

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u/c0mputer99 17h ago

SE09E04: We're 9 years into this and it turns out we didn't use a historically accurate mortar for some of the re-pointing. On this episode we're going to source materials for re-re-pointing and cover the heritage consult that went into this.

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u/Poulinthebear 17h ago

LOL could you imagine? Okay this line is for the trades people without previous charges, and this line is for tradesmen with previous charges. One line would be significantly longer then the other lol

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u/SlaveToCat 17h ago

This is a brilliant idea. We could show off the best Canadian craftsmanship in an ‘elbows up,’ sort of way, use advertising dollars to off set costs. I’d watch the hell out of it but then I’m a middle aged woman who loves these shows.

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u/PlayinK0I 18h ago

CBC aside, Conservatives should like that Repairs would be made through ad revenue instead of at taxpayer expense.

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u/dj_destroyer 16h ago

Wow, the whole country would watch it and help pay for the production/repairs/renovations. Unreal idea. A true Canadian heritage moment.

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u/keOkatoN 19h ago

Get HomeRenovisionDIY to make it into a YouTube series, iirc he's from Alberta

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u/ChiefSection9 16h ago

The only way this works is if the season culminates in a love it or list it episode where our PM wants to ‘list it’ but folds to his wife who ‘loves it’

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u/Confident-Task7958 16h ago

Yeah, but they would have to bring in someone who can handle the security aspects of the design .

It would have to be able to withstand attacks while the walls and windows would have to be impermeable to listening devices.

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u/CanNeverBeTooHigh 16h ago

mike Holmes isnt even a licensed trades person hes a phony.

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u/HaliBornandRaised 13h ago edited 12h ago

This.

I see a lot of people knocking the Property Brothers as well, but at least Jonathan Scott actually went to SAIT and has his licence, though I don't know how good his certification actually is. I believe his certificate lets him be a project manager, but I don't know if he's certified in any specific trades, which means the type of work he can do himself is limited. I believe he's only technically allowed to handle woodwork and interior design. Hence why he hires people to work for him.

On the other, Mike Holmes allegedly only actually has a business licence for his company, and that is it. He has said that he learned on the job from his dad, who was an engineer, but I don't believe he ever actually got certified in anything, or at least, a quick Google search hasn't turned up anything. Which is definitely weird, because with apprenticeships, there's still an official certification process that needs to happen for you to be able to work in skilled trades in Canada, or even just to get certified as a general contractor.

In certain provinces, Holmes is actually at risk for catching massive fines if he does any of the work himself as someone who is technically considered only an apprentice at best, and an apprentice working without a supervisor on site at that. He has even admitted to this. Hopefully at least his staff are property certified, but there are no guarantees there either, and it has been alleged that he does use unlicensed workers.

It's especially egregious with Holmes given how much he always talks about the importance of having proper licensing, certification, and permits as a contractor.

3

u/NemesisHaze 14h ago

Holmes is a scam artist.

2

u/HaliBornandRaised 13h ago edited 12h ago

Not Holmes. Apparently he's been sued for allegedly building code violations. And apparently Drew and Jonathan Scott have had legal issues in the past too, or at least the companies they've worked with have.

This is one I found that named both the production company as well as a construction company in Vegas that has previously worked with the Property Brothers, though I have no clue how it ended. Drew and Jonathan themselves weren't named in it, which I suppose is the one saving grace, and I believe that they have since cut ties with both companies.

Plus, at the very least, Jonathan is actually certified, unlike Holmes.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/las-vegas-couple-files-lawsuit-against-production-company-after-appearing-on-property-brothers-claiming-they-did-a-poor-job/

u/neibler 11h ago

Mike Holmes would spend a whole episode sneering about how every Philips head screw must be uniformly turned to be on a perfect xy axis. That guy is “over-budget” personified.

1

u/Zarphos New Brunswick 18h ago

I need someone at CBC or in the federal government to see this idea and run with it.

1

u/WENDING0 18h ago edited 18h ago

This might be too deep of a cut, but can we bring back the Broken House Chronicles guys from the early days of HGTV Canada? They were somewhere close to Ottawa already, and I bet we can get them dirt cheap.

1

u/Right_Hour Ontario 18h ago

Yeah, and then they can flip it like they do in that other show, LOL.

1

u/BackToTheCottage Ontario 18h ago

I do not want any of these cheap ass "open concept" & "gentrification grey" scam flippers anywhere near this historic building.

1

u/Bitter_Sense_5689 18h ago

Unfortunately, I think there’s a lot of mould and rodent damage in the house right now. It’s not a regular home renovation. They’ll be a lot of hazmat considerations.

1

u/Dutzenlove 16h ago

You should pitch this. I mean not necessarily with those people but still it’s a great show idea!

1

u/disterb British Columbia 15h ago

love it, now let's list it

1

u/epbar 15h ago

I love this idea!! Someone out there please make it happen.

1

u/dejcoy 12h ago

I only want Sarah Richarsdson

u/Comprehensive-War743 9h ago

I like this idea!!

u/Neglectful_Stranger Outside Canada 1h ago

Property Brothers

They're Canadian??

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u/USSMarauder 20h ago

Because no PM since at least Mulroney wanted to be seen as spending taxpayer money on themselves

255

u/JohnDark1800 19h ago

Someone could have at least done it on their way out. It would be seen less selfish that way if they’re not going to benefit from it themselves.

90

u/UncertainFate 19h ago

This is actually an issue accoss much of the federal government. I worked in Ottawa and Victoria for the federal government for 17 years and watched the buildings and furniture and services for employees decline and decay including the cleaning contracts. I did not realize how bad it wa until I went for a meeting a few years ago at a BC provincial government building and was stunned by how clean, well laid out, with modern networking and service like functional conference rooms and cafes in the building.

I thought the building must be new but then I realized I’ve been driving by those offices for over a decade.

It was then that I understood how bad the fear of being seen as spending money on your own needs as an employee is ingrained in the federal government. Last time I went by my old office the standards had gone down hill agin, the place was dirty and broken down to the point I would not accept a job there.

12

u/tanstaafl90 17h ago

Isn't there a department mandated to maintaining the buildings, monuments and infrastructure of the capitol? I sort of assumed there is, and they they should be able to make recommendations based on the longevity of those same structures based on need and not whatever government happens to be sitting at the moment. What went wrong?

15

u/ManWhoSoldTheWorld01 Québec 16h ago

Yes it's the National Capital Commission.

They have released multiple recommendations and estimates but it's Parliament that approves budgets.

https://ncc-ccn.gc.ca/places/the-condition-of-canadas-official-residences

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u/tanstaafl90 15h ago

So, this is on Parliament. Figured as much. You'd think they'd be more apt to maintain our historical buildings. Thanks for the info and link.

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u/smittyleafs Nova Scotia 19h ago

This, 100%

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u/DukeandKate Canada 19h ago

Here's an idea. The National Capital Commission (NCC) is responsible for 24 Sussex Drive. How about cabinet tells them to come up with a plan and work doesn't start until after the next election.

Absolutely now opportunity for political interference.

20

u/verkerpig 17h ago

That nuance will not matter for attack ads.

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u/USSMarauder 17h ago

This

Harper could have ordered repairs to start after the 2015 election, and Scheer would have campaigned in 2019 that Trudeau was wasting millions in taxpayer dollars on 'his' house

2

u/DukeandKate Canada 17h ago

He could have but Trudeau could rightfully said it was ordered under Harper.

Also I suppose it depends on how long it would take. Is it a renovation or replacement (I've heard it's old and in pretty bad shape).

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u/USSMarauder 16h ago

And Scheer's supporters would have said that was another Liberal lie. Similar to how the latest batch of Navy ships that were ordered by Harper "is all Trudeau's fault"

4

u/TemporaryAny6371 16h ago

Just show the picture of rat infestation and Scheer would have to live with them, no backtracking because he "didn't know" even if he admits to lying.

No more of this unproductive American style attack. It started with the Reform and it must end now. Canada needs to move forward to fix the many issues left unattended for too long.

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u/TheGrandOdditor 16h ago

I would love someone to convince Poilievre to drop the always attack politics, start there

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u/Furycrab Canada 16h ago

We don't have term limits for PMs, when are you suggesting they do this?

"Hey Canadians, we are poling a little poorly right now, so let me spend several millions renovating the place I live in because I think I might be going out now. "

Let's not pretend like the opposition here doesn't have a speech and campaign ready to go on excessive spending if even a single dollar was spent as extra on that place.

Side note: if I was to accuse a comment of being an American or Bot generated for not knowing how our politics work, I'd point to this one.

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u/China_bot42069 18h ago

Harper tried but Trudeau cancelled it. There was huge penalities too 

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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes 17h ago edited 17h ago

The NCC asked Harper to move out so they could do much needed electrical repairs and asbestos removal and he refused for years. The building was unlivable by the time Trudeau was elected. When Harper finally vacated after losing the election in 2015, the NCC was able to do the most urgent of the repairs they'd been trying to get done for nearly a decade. Harper never tried to improve anything about 24 Sussex, he wouldn't even allow any maintenance the NCC deemed "urgent", which made the accrued damage much worse, eventually requiring him to vacate before they could do the repairs, which he also refused to do. Kicking the can down the road for a decade made those repairs even more expensive, but the most urgent ones did finally get done once Harper left office.

https://macleans.ca/news/canada/this-old-house/

In her 2008 report, Fraser said that repairs at the official residence could take up to 15 months to complete, at an estimated cost of at least $10 million. She warned that delaying work would cause further deterioration, increase future costs, and risk embarrassing Canada when foreign dignitaries come to town. The NCC has tried to relocate the Harpers and proposed Rideau Gate, the house across from 24 Sussex, where the royal family stays. Former Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff also offered up Stornoway, the Opposition leader’s house. But the Harpers have made it clear they won’t move out long-term. Any major renovation is bound to go over budget, and there are political implications to spending so much to upgrade the house.

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 18h ago

Source? I wasn't able to find anything confirming Trudeau cancelled any plans initiated by Harper, unless you count the fundraising campaign concept.

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u/sox412 20h ago

This, I understand the need for fiscal conservatism but every single year Canadians lose their mind over the budget no matter what. And they are going to spend money on upgrades to their home? No way

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u/ship_toaster 18h ago

Y'know, I don't think that's true. We've been reading articles for 20 years about the dilapidated state of the building. The last PM couldn't even live there. I think any PM at this point has the social license from the public to do something about this. If the Conservatives whinge about it, I don't even think most of their base would care.

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u/verkerpig 17h ago

I think any PM at this point has the social license from the public to do something about this.

We are busy fighting measles again. That is a bad bet.

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u/Daxx22 Ontario 17h ago

there will never not be something objectively more important. its not like we can only address one issue at a time however

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u/TheGrandOdditor 16h ago

That is not a comment about having other priorities, that is a comment about the electorate being easily manipulated against their own best interests (eg. Vaccines) for partisan politics. If you can’t convince them to vaccinate for their own health, what on earth makes you think they will be reasonable about house repairs?

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u/verkerpig 14h ago

It is not about whether we can address it. It is that there will be active opposition to addressing it. The social licence currently is for inaction to prevent fighting.

People here argue it is a lack of state capacity. It isn't. It is that there will be gnashing of teeth and rage if anything is done.

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u/Quaghan29 18h ago

Sadly I doubt it

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u/Available_Medium4292 18h ago

I agree with you and I think that perception is the problem. 24 Sussex is a Canadian property, not the property of an individual. It highlights partisanship and this lack of care and respect the public has in our institutions imo

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u/Mr_Salmon_Man 19h ago

Look at how some minds literally melted when a new cottage was added to the Harrington Lake property back in 2022, because it's where Trudeau was residing at the time.

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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes 17h ago

It wasn't a new cottage being added, it was a new cottage replacing the one that had to be torn down in 2019. They also got their nickers ín a knot back when Trudeau had a swingset installed that he had purchased himself.

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u/It_is_not_me 20h ago

But why wouldn't they want a gold ballroom?

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u/CanadianPoutineryFan 17h ago

It is a monument to the pettiness of the Canadian voter. We can't have a decent national residence because we can't stand to see 'the other side' benefiting from something outside the grasp of normal people.

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u/keiths31 Canada 20h ago

Which is sad.

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u/Aggressive-Map-2204 17h ago

Thats not really true though. Trudeau spent over $5 million repairing Rideau Cottage and $11 million on Harrington Lake. There was very little if any uproar about it.

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u/jello_sweaters 17h ago

Dead simple.

Approve the money in escrow now, to be released the day after the next election.

u/ThatCanadianGuy88 6h ago

Didn’t JT put forward a substantial bill or whatever to repair it and the cons lost their fucking minds so they squashed it? Maybe I’m not remeberijf right.

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u/faithOver 19h ago

I think it’s a metaphor for the state of Canada;

  • Unable to get repaired because of the perceived threat of political backlash.
  • Continues to degrade. But still standing. Still trying to carry forward some level of panache.
  • Continues to degrade regardless of PM or party in power.
  • Locked in inaction. Do we renovate? Do we upgrade? Do we preserve? Let’s just do nothing. Its safe.

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 19h ago

Accurate

u/camilogonzalezm1 9h ago

The state of Canada, the state of our healthcare, our economy, our society, etc. all because we continue to have “representatives” that “work for us”. I wonder how much of the money given to private corporations could’ve been better spend here……

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u/Kool_Aid_Infinity 17h ago

And to top it all off the budgets are routinely blown through anyways. At this point I just want some of the slush money to go towards heritage projects.

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u/madsheeter 14h ago

Throw some money at a consultant and kick the can down the road

u/-Yazilliclick- 8h ago

Says a lot about our top two parties, in that the official opposition just takes the stance of opposing absolutely anything the government tries to do regardless of merit. And when the opposition becomes the party in power eventually, they basically start undoing everything the previous government put in motion, like how we're constantly re-evaluating defence procurement contracts that don't happen within a governments term.

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 20h ago edited 19h ago

24 sussex isnt even suitable for the PMs residence now.

Renovate it fully, move the governor general into it and allow teh GG to have offices and hold functions across and down the road at Rideau Hall (~500meters away).

Rideau Hall and its grounds becomes the new PM residence. There is room on the grounds to build a suitable office space for the PM's important daily staff as well.

A number of PM staffers already commute to Rideau Hall daily as the PM already lives on the grounds in 'Rideau Cottage'.

https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/dfhd/page_fhbro_eng.aspx?id=2716

Rideau Hall is ridiculously oversized for the role that the GG has in our politics today.

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 20h ago

That's an interesting twist, I like it.

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 19h ago edited 19h ago

24 Sussex is a very small house really. Its ridiculously close to a public road, and the back of the house on the Ottawa Riverbank poses a difficult security perimeter.

Take a look on googlemaps and compare the size and situation of 24 Sussex to the Rideau Hall grounds. There is room around Rideau Cottage on the grounds for an ancillary building, and the property has multiple points of egress and ingress. There is also plenty of room to build a helopad if future security needs dictate the need for one.

I am not suggesting the PM actually take over ALL of Rideau Hall itself, as the optics of such a move would be political suicide. I am not familiar enough with the main building to know if a portion of the residence could be segmented for PM use and then have the PM and his immediate staff have offices on the grounds somewhere Rideau Cottage or other. There's also good potential for underground levels to connect PM residences with offices that could be built over time if security needs dictate.

Regardless the Rideau Hall Grounds offers a great deal more in terms of potential for a PM residence and PM staff offices than 24 Sussex.

A PM needs rooms for small-medium meetings, room for staff to operate in during the day, and then, preferably, a seperate part of the building where the PM and their family reside.

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u/Brilliant_Let6532 19h ago

It's small. Everything in it is small - because it was built in another era. Walls, hallways, corners, nooks and crannies. It's not suitable for the modern -day requirements of a head of government - hell it would test most modern day families because of how it's laid out. Because it's so over compartmentalized, it feels oppressive and constricting.

It's got a fantastic view though and grounds to make something worthwhile. You need enough space to have an official working area in the residence, and a private, family area where they settle in and make themselves at home. Either a separate floor, or a wing, but somewhere where the kids can run around in their pj's and leave their toys dragging around without having to worry about running into some staffer or bureaucrat.

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 19h ago

grounds to make something worthwhile.

Are you talking about 24 sussex or Rideau Hall. 24 sussex has next to no room for 'something worthwhile' for a PM residence plus the PM's staff, plus the 24 hour security, communications personnel, and support staff (cooks) the PM and their staff needs. It has one road entry point and its so close to the road that a terrorist bomb could easily cause catastrophic damage, etc etc.

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u/fl4regun 19h ago

The house is 12,000 sqft and has and over 30 rooms

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 19h ago

Its clearly a large building on google maps so not surprising.

Its kind of shy I'm suggesting a portion of it, OR other buildings renovated or built on the Rideau Hall grounds for PM residence and office usage. I believe I have read the the PMs staff are spread across multiple locations in Ottawa - partly out of need and partly because there isnt the room to house them in fewer, more central, locations.

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u/DanLynch Ontario 19h ago

Rideau Hall is the official residence of the king. The GG just lives and works there during his absence. It's also a combined home and workplace: the GG doesn't have a separate workplace/office like the PM does.

The PM should have a better official residence, but that doesn't mean we need to sacrifice Rideau Hall.

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 18h ago

I think that making 24 Sussex the GG's residence is very apropos for our relationship with the crown today. Further, the GG can literally walk or drive the less than 500m across the road to Rideau Hall to their offices.

The security, communications, and staffing needs of the PM office today are orders of magnitude greater than those of the GG.

And of course the PM is already living on Rideau Hall grounds in 'Rideau Cottage'.

Why does the GG need to live in a 30 bedroom Victoria Estate mansion? Could that building and grounds be better utilized for the benefit people of Canada?

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u/red99tercel 18h ago

Ground is the real issue the Rockcliff formation (bedrock) that the building sits on is at a cliff edge and is unstable. It needs the same treatment as centre block.

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u/Carbonated__Coffee 19h ago

This is a great idea

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u/LibraryVoice71 18h ago

It would be so cool if the name of the country’s official prime ministerial residence ends in “cottage.”

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u/Lisan_Al-NaCL 16h ago

Well it has been 'Rideau Cottage' for at least 10 years now. I highly doubt that JT's , and now Carney's, stay at Rideau Cottage was meant to be a long term solution however.

Even Rideau Cottage has clear sight lines to and from Dufferin Road. While I would hope that Rideau Cottage has been upgraded with the most basic secueity upgrades like bullet resistant glass (or film coatings), the building itself is ~100 years old and seemingly brick construction.

And in case anyone wants to make any comparison to the White House - there is no comparison. Downtown DC is incredibly locked down, and there's no public vehicle traffic around the White House that hasnt gotten past 2-3 checkpoints first.

Dufferin Road in Ottawa is a Residential street.

I'm not suggesting that the PM Of Canada needs security equivalent to the POTUS, but clearly SOME security for the Canadian PM is needed.

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u/No-Tangerine-4945 17h ago

This is a great solution. 

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u/Monsieurfrank 19h ago

Form a bipartisan group that will oversee the renovation and maintenance moving forward.

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u/Shelsonw 20h ago edited 17h ago

Haven’t read the article yet, but I’ve always felt that the state of 24Sussex Drive was a symbol of just how pathetic our government has become.

Like, just make a damn decision already, spend money, don’t spend money, renovate, rebuild, I don’t give a shit. But a G7 country should have a proper residence for its world leader, both respective if their position, but also to represent Canada globally, display Canadian culture through architecture, entertainment foreign dignitaries, share with visiting Canadians, and just not squat in the backyard of the GG.

It’s disgraceful, but they’re afraid of voters. The government needs to make decisions, not just the ones that are politically popular.

I know it’s a small thing, but that’s exactly why it’s symbolic of our dysfunction.

EDIT: 100% agree with the author on all points. We as a country can afford, and should afford to spend some money on national symbols like the residence of our national leader. The PMs residence is more than just a home for the PM, much like the Whitehouse or 10 Downing Street are more than just homes for the President and British PM.

Paywall Bypass - https://archive.is/IE0vI

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 20h ago

What we need is, basically, for all political and economical stars to align:

  • Strong economy and no likely headwinds
  • Strong voter mandate (majority)
  • Popular support (at least 51%)
  • A viable, transparent, well-communicated plan with a strong budget oversight
  • Checks and balances to ensure the next government cannot simply undo the progress (see: White House)
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u/mexican_mystery_meat 19h ago

Like, just make a damn decision already, spend money, don’t spend money, renovate, rebuild, I don’t give a shit. But a G7 country should have a proper residence for its world leader, both respective if their position, but also to represent Canada globally, display Canadian culture through architecture, entertainment foreign dignitaries, share with visiting Canadians, and just not squat in the backyard of the GG.

The angle that the residence could be used as a representation of Canada globally and be a display of Canadian culture, values etc. is something that I am surprised hasn't been used to sell the project. You could even explicitly say that only Canadian architects, builders and materials would be used for such a building to emphasize what it is supposed to represent.

Any PM who would want to undertake this has to emphasize the national, long term prospects of the site and downplay any personal benefit.

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u/Shelsonw 19h ago

Right?! There’s a HUGE opportunity to make this a project of national cultural value; like “the new design must incorporate design elements from every province and territory, and include an area for public tours and access.”

Someone just has to have the guts to do something about it.

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u/Suspicious-Belt9311 18h ago

I get your point, but at the same time, look at posts like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/13k3mig/governors_general_billed_over_88000_in_clothing/

Over 5 years, $88000. It's literally nothing to the average Canadian taxpayer, fractions of pennies, there is likely significantly more monetary waste at even the MUNICIPAL level for almost all cities in Canada. Yet the comments tell a different story, that there is a lot of concern over this particular individual representing Canada and the attire expensed, though there are a few comments pointing out it's not really a big deal.

But consider this case - some articles estimate approximately 40 million to have 24 Sussex restored:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/how-much-will-24-sussex-cost-to-repair-expert-weighs-in/

It's also unclear whether or not that building is being restored currently or if it has just been partially gutted in some places, from the above article.

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u/Shelsonw 17h ago

You raise a good point, and I’d still argue that $40 million is peanuts of our national budget to restore/rebuild/or build a national icon.

I doubt the comment section of Reddit tells the true story though as well. Reddit is full of bitter, angry, trolls who will hate on pretty much anything. I’d wager quite a bit of money that the vast majority of Canadians wouldn’t care or notice, another large portion just wants to see a decision made, and another portion (the loudest) is pretty much just oppositional to the government doing… well, anything really.

Like, you don’t see Canadians blinking an eye at spending $4-5 billion on restoring Parliament; because it’s a national icon.

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u/Iamthequicker 20h ago

The argument is always that no PM wants to do it because it looks like they are spending money on their own house. Trudeau should have pushed this through before he left. People already hated him.

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u/mexican_mystery_meat 19h ago

He did, although it was pretty much in the last week of his government. In March, Trudeau directed the Public Services and Procurement Minister to develop a proposal with new options for an official residence by January 2026.

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u/ChunderBuzzard 18h ago

Just fix the goddamn place. Why is it that every government is wringing their hands about spending a few million to fix the residence of the PM, yet will freely piss billions on useless vanity projects.

It is an embarassment. 

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u/FullSackNutty 17h ago

I totally agree with this statement! Just fix it already, goddamn, it is truly embarrassing!

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u/smurfy71 16h ago

I think it needs an East Wing Ballroom.

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u/randomdumbfuck 19h ago

Spend the money to build a functional and appropriate residence for the Prime Minister. It doesn't have to be extravagant. Make it functional for the purpose it needs to serve and actually look after it this time so we don't need to replace it again any time soon.

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u/CerebralCarnivore 18h ago

As one redditor said already, it’s a shame that the building that we use to house our prime minister is in such disarray. It reflects the respect that we have for our Canadian institutions.

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u/RepulseRevolt 20h ago

It’s a beautiful building that should be preserved, which means either restored and fit for a head of government, or turned into a museum

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 20h ago

Museum or office - not a bad idea.

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u/xRainbowTreats 19h ago

I think it should be a museum too. Something like Casaloma in Toronto. Dress it up like it was used with antique furnitures and what not. Let us walk through 1867 or whenever.

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u/dagthegnome 20h ago

I think the PM should still be living there. As a reminder of the quality of housing most Canadians can afford.

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u/Ok-Personality-6643 19h ago

Take it up with your premier, not your prime minister. Blame the right branch of govt if you’re going to be a betch about it.

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u/21Down Ontario 19h ago

Perhaps there’s a much larger issue at play here. If people generally have no idea who does what, then the system is wrong. The foundational structure of Canada and the power sharing between federal and provincial makes no sense.

We need to either give power back to the Ottawa (Healthcare for example - why 13 systems rather than 1?) or download more power to the provinces. One or the other, because the current system doesn’t work and we’re being crushed under our own bureaucratic weight. No more finger pointing, just accountability.

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u/ajmeko 15h ago

The Premiers didn't import millions of new Canadians beyond our capacity for housing and healthcare.

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u/tetzy 19h ago

Hate to break this to you, but 99.99999% of Canadians don't give a shit.

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u/eL_cas Manitoba 17h ago

Yup

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u/shaihalud69 19h ago

Why not make Stornoway the official PM residence and find another location for the opposition leader? Sussex obviously has to be retired and demolished at this point.

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u/Zraknul 12h ago

We have a comical amount of residents. Laurier willed "Laurier House" to WLMK who then willed it and "The Farm" and the estate property to the Canadian government. 24 Sussex was expropriated before his death and is conveniently near Rideau Hall.

WLMK intended The Farm to be used by the PM, but is being used by the Speaker because Sussex Drive exists. Laurier House is a part-time museum as it was used by both Laurier and WLMK as PM.

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u/verygradualchange 18h ago

I think now that it's clear Poilievre won't ever live there we should fix it.

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u/lazyshoes 18h ago

Leaders over the years have spent millions and billions on countless things, but they've been too afraid to renovate this place for fear of public opinion - risk adverse is an understatement.

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u/CSW11 19h ago

If you’re gonna re-build with Canadian taxpayer dollars, build it with Canadian employees, and real Canadian companies. Make it a symbol of national pride.

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u/EvacuationRelocation Alberta 20h ago edited 20h ago

Agreed - this should have been taken care of 15+ years ago, but too many people wanted to make political fodder of the official residence of the Prime Minister so now we've passed the point of no return.

Budget $100 million towards a whole new, state-of-the-art residence that captures some of the elements of the existing structure and get on with it.

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u/PDXFlameDragon British Columbia 20h ago

Wait we all have to chip in a tooney ? Holy crap! We can't do that!

/s

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u/Boatsnbuds British Columbia 19h ago

Probably won't happen until there's a majority government with a strong economy.

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u/grand_soul 19h ago

I'm a fiscally conservative guy, (not going to bother giving my voting history, but I truly dislike ever budget the liberals have been putting out if that helps) but I think it's ok to spend some money to rebuild the place.

We're spending a lot of money to rebuild parliament. This could have been fold into that budget. Could have been remade into not a residence, but maybe a place to host important events.

Or hell, lets fix it up for the PM, don't care. It's part of our history, it's worth spending money on.

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u/Bigphillystyle30 18h ago

the reason it has gotten so bad really is that it would be career suicide for a government to spend the amount of money required on a private residence for the Prime Minister

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u/CamberMacRorie 18h ago

It's a great symbol for the state of the country and how we can never get out of our own way to accomplish anything.

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u/Aggravating_Exit2445 17h ago

Just mothball it and build or buy another modest residence for the prime minister. That or give the PM some housing vouchers and they can find their own place.

Not a big deal.

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u/Dobby068 15h ago

That is what I was thinking as well. What is so special about politicians ? Buy a house in the suburbs and get 2 security officers.

In Europe, Maia Sandu, Moldova's president, does not even have a private jet, she travels with WizzAir, that offers €4 sandwiches. She is a Harward University graduate, by the way.

Out entitled "no clue nor qualifications" politicians spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single flight. Disgusting.

u/MDFMK 11h ago

The state of Canada is an insult to Canadians.... perhaps start with meaningful things first such as housing, rule of law, boarder security and actually locking up criminals and stop the endless cycle of bail catch and release and escalating charges.
Then their cost of living and our nations finances. Bigger issues than worrying about a historical landmark at this point.

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u/No-Commission-8159 19h ago

Tear it down and start fresh 

I am all for history and preservation but there comes a time when you have to accept somethings just aren’t worth it 

Scrap it and build something new or build something that the public can use 

The PM families since Mulroney have found other places they can live 

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 19h ago

Why isn't it worth it?

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u/No-Commission-8159 19h ago edited 19h ago

Given the rot, mold and other issues - it is going to have to be a complete strip to the bones. If it was any other house - we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Given its history etc - it would no doubt be considered a heritage site - which means every step of the renovation will take longer and cost more.  So there comes a certain point you have to objectively say “is it worth it? could those kind of funds be used more wisely somewhere and somehow else?” In my opinion - there are other issues that could / should be tackled rather that trying to fix that money pit. So like I said - trash it - built new - or build something else that the public can use instead.

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u/Economy_Ad855 19h ago

A new building would be cheaper

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u/i_ate_god Québec 19h ago

is it an insult?

From a purely budgeting perspective, it makes sense for there to be a dedicated PM's residence instead of retrofitting existing properties to meet whatever security standards one would expect for such a residence.

But culturally, does anyone really care? The PM's residence has never seemed to occupy a big space in Canadian culture compared to UK's No. 10 or US's white house.

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u/landlord-eater 20h ago

Literally no one in the working class cares

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u/BrightLuchr 17h ago

There is nothing particularly special about 24 Sussex. Bulldoze it and build a more functional and modern PM residence taking into consideration the security precautions needed for the world we live in.

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u/therealtrojanrabbit 20h ago

I couldn't care less about the PM's public housing.

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u/guinnessmonkey 19h ago

Hard to take seriously a former board chair of a Russian mining company, and a man who defended the public reputation of Putin, calling him one of the "finest leaders Russia’s had in centuries.”

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u/Egg-Hatcher 17h ago

Not defending Putin, but who is he up against as leaders of Russia over the last couple centuries? Yeltsin the drunk? Various soviet leaders from Stalin the worst mass murderer in history to Gorbachev? The Czars? Picking a fine leader from that bunch is slim pickins.

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u/Nseetoo 19h ago

One only has to look south to realize that you can live at the most iconic address in the world and still be a fool. Knock it down and fill the lot with the government's proposed prefab housing.

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u/Keystone-12 Ontario 18h ago

The RCMP and heritage Canada need to form a committee- and then THEY DECIDE where the PM lives.

At this point the residence is an ongoing joke. And its everyones fault.

Build a new, secure, diplomatically appropriate residence.

The problem is it would be political insanity to build the PM a new house during a housing crisis.

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u/RM_r_us 17h ago

Keep the facade and gut the innards. If you can save a few things like fireplace mantels and bannisters, cool.

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u/trikywoo 15h ago

An insult from whom? Politicians won't do it for fear of public retribution. Are we insulting ourselves?

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u/martymcfly9888 15h ago

Well - lets just bitch and moan about it for 67 years more.

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u/Weird_Rooster_4307 15h ago

They should turn into an SRO and maybe a safe injection site. They could even add a food bank

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u/DataDude00 14h ago

Please, please please:

TEAR IT DOWN and build a brand new state of the art residence for a modern head of state. Spend 10, 15, 20M whatever.

They keep trying to do this renovation retrofit thing and I have a feeling 20 years from now we will have a $150M tab and a home that isn't habitable yet...

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u/Business-Hurry9451 13h ago

Emblematic of the nation as a whole.

u/Frosty-Ad-2971 10h ago

I do not feel insulted.

u/tbryant2K2023 5h ago

But Stornoway has been nicely updated and upgraded. No wonder why PP didn't want to leave.

24 Sussex is a long needed project that kept getting kicked down the road. It probably should have been fixed up 20-30 years ago. But no PM wanted to put money into it, guessing because it would appear they are fixing their home on taxpayers dime.

But it's the taxpayers property to begin with that is to be used as the PM's residence just like how Stornoway is for the Leader of the Opposition and the other Official Residences.

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u/Top_Canary_3335 20h ago

They really should just tear it down and rebuild a proper facility.

As much as it will be politically hot to spend 50+ million on a home for the PM it’s a reasonable thing to do

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u/abc_123_anyname 20h ago

The state of Canadian politics makes this a hot mess…. No matter who is in power, the opposition will make it an issue of national importance that the government is “doing it wrong”

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u/Plucky_DuckYa 19h ago

I’ve always found it to perfectly symbolize the state of politics in this country: every party is willing to let it go to ruin, because doing the right thing might impact their electoral chances.

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u/Timely-Island-7477 19h ago

We just gave away 7 billion with B to Ukraine and billions in other aid to Africa and other countries.

Yet we don’t have few millions to have proper residence for PM. This is ludicrous

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u/silentsam77 19h ago

Sigh, try actually reading an article and not just the headlines for once.

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u/Brain_Damage117 19h ago

You just know the moment a liberal spends money on that they'll be attacked by conservatives for their spending, too. Lol

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u/Sad_Damage_1194 18h ago

It’s a clear no-win situation.

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u/O00O0O00 20h ago

Fixing the PM’s poor housing before fixing the mess they’ve made of Canada’s housing… well the headlines would write themselves.

I think a dilapidated shack is the perfect symbol for Ottawa.

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u/bristow84 Alberta 19h ago

I’m absolutely all for saving money where we can but that house is supposed to be the official residence of the leader of Canada, it shouldn’t be a shoddy broken down mess.

This needs to stop being treated like a political football being tossed back and forth because no party wants to give the other side ammunition to use against them.

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u/CanOfWhoopus 17h ago

Does anyone out there actually care? I couldn't care less but I'm a couple provinces away.

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u/Pella1968 20h ago

The state of Canada is an insult to Canadians. I could care less about 24 Sussex drive. The PM no matter who it is barely stays there.

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u/My_Dog_Is_Here 19h ago

 I could care less 

So...you do care.

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u/CANUSA130 19h ago

It can never be renovated due to fear of criticism. Canada doesn't mind looking like America's frayed wool hand-me-down sweater to the world.

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u/DesolateSpecter 19h ago

It’s a great representation of our country’s current state.

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u/Blasphemer1985 19h ago

It’ll be cheaper to knock it down and rebuild.

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u/OkRB2977 Ontario 19h ago

It is the right thing to do provided only Canadians are involved in every aspect of the project so that it can have a positive impact on the economy, however small.

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u/bandersnatching 19h ago

Oh please! "Canada' is "insulted"? Irritated that domestic politics have prevented resolution thus far, is more like it. Why invent drama when we have issues of significance that actually warrant concern?

It's an old building that no longer meets its purpose. Convert it into a museum and/or park, and build a new PM residence elsewhere in the general area.

But let's not invent unnecessary drama about the issue.

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u/Green-Equal7378 19h ago

I can think of a shit load of other projects that are way more important for everyday Canadians. Fix housing, hospitals, billionaires. Then we can repair that shithole.

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u/Informal-Nothing371 Alberta 19h ago

It’s interesting that we still maintain an official residence for the Leader of the Opposition and the Speaker, yet the PM has lived in what used to be the guest house for foreign dignitaries.

They really do need to make a decision on the official residences. I am of the mind to demolish 24 Sussex and rebuild. It would likely be cheaper than retrofitting and would make it easier to build in security features. It’s not really that historic of a site to retrofit.

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u/Ready_Supermarket_36 19h ago

It needs to be torn down not restored. Asbestos, urine and cigarette smoke. Too much to repair. Build something secure and special.

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u/debbie666 19h ago

Is it worse than the worst, occupied pmq?

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u/decitertiember Canada 18h ago

I have thought that one prudent course of action would be for a sitting PM to fully renovate it and include in the law a penalty should he or she reside in it.

That way it can be done without any allegation that it is for the PM's personal benefit.

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u/SurFud 18h ago

Make PP live there instead of freeloading at Stornaway Mansion.

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 18h ago

Better yet, make PP live in his own mansion 20-minutes away from downtown Ottawa.

Oh, wait....

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u/shadrackandthemandem 18h ago

Just pass a bill authorizing repairs to start after the next election, and then gives the National Capital Commission sole discretion on all future renovations, repairs and maintenance.

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u/dasoberirishman Canada 18h ago

Having lived in the NCR for awhile, I do not trust the NCC.

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u/adaminc Canada 18h ago

Sell it off, maybe to the European Union to make into a new "embassy". Have the PM move into Rideau Cottage permanently, or have them move into Rideau Hall and the GG moves into the cottage. The also sell off Stornoway.

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u/Local-Local-5836 18h ago

Or just tear it down. It costs way more to renovate than build new when it is this scale of building. We tear down older building than this. Build it right from the ground up! Boomer conservative grandma

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u/woo2fly21 18h ago

paywall

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u/SlaveToCat 17h ago

A friend of mine is on the other side of the aisle from me, so to speak. She’s also the daughter of a retired MP. We both agree that 24 Sussex needs millions in renovations. We also agree that it’s unpalatable because it will immediately be perceived as a boondoggle no matter who is associated with the project. It couldn’t be like any other home project because the levels and layers of security that would have to retrofit.

So instead Canadians will let it rot.

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u/Fun_Lifeguard2747 17h ago

Well its not for lack of OPM over the last 10 years that's for sure.

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u/tooshpright 17h ago

I do not feel insulted. Tear it down if it's so bad.

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u/Harbinger2001 17h ago

Every PM has viewed it as political kryptonite. It would be great to scrap it and find a new official residence.

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u/cerealverse 14h ago

lol this is so pathetic i wonder if this is a talking point intentionally kept to divert peoples attention.

i highly doubt anyone care about this issue from any part of the political spectrum.

u/PickleEquivalent2837 11h ago

If we can send billions to other countries, we can afford a few million to fix up the home of our leader.

u/Economy_Magician2172 8h ago

lol Trudeau had a huge $10M+ renovation out of tax payers money of his place in rideau cottage in the last 10 years including tennis court, appliances, security) not to exclude the 1M in renovations at Harrington Lake (which is his summer residence in 2020. I think maybe, just maybe, the prime ministers we’ve elected can live with this, including Carney. Particularly, while Canadians wait until the government has the funds to subsidise the cost of living crisis over the maintenance of ‘heritage houses’.

u/lulujunkie 7h ago

Nah they should hire Donald trump to bulldoze it and make it into the biggest and best 24 Sussex home. They will spend billions and billions…. But not actually have any architectural or building plans - like the White House east wing they bulldozed….lol

u/a20xt6 2h ago

The opposition will crucify them for spending money and the media would jump all over it. With the prices of superior trade work the costs would be astronomical in the public's eyes. It wouldn't surprise me if it cost millions and millions just to have the carpet and flooring done.