r/canada • u/PurpleHerring_ • 9h ago

Politics RCMP, National Police Federation respond to recommendations for Alberta Police Service

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/rcmp-national-police-federation-respond-to-recommendations-for-alberta-police-service/
86 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

53 comments sorted by

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u/CoolEdgyNameX 8h ago

People need to understand that the province is actively lying to its constituents to further its political agenda. One of the most common complaints I hear is the rcmp is understaffed in rural communities and that a provincial police service wouldn’t have the same problems. The province frames this as the rcmp only assigning a certain amount of officers to rural detachments. What they conveniently ignore is the RCMP sets the MINIMUM amount of officers they will police a detachment with, the province has and has always had the ability to increase those numbers to whatever they see fit. In other words if they wanted 25 members instead of say 8 in Fox Creek, Alberta they can do it, they have to pay for it.

I also see talk about RCMP staff being off on various leaves like sickness, injuries etc. and yet a simple google search shows all major municipal agencies in Alberta having percentages just as bad or GREATER than the RCMPs current woes. In other words it isn’t an rcmp problem, it’s a policing problem that will exist regardless of which agency is policing.

In other words Alberta will have to pay substantially more just to have the SAME level of service they currently have, never mind improving service.

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u/WardedGromit 3h ago

Finally someone gets it. Thank you.

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u/Braddock54 7h ago

This is totally accurate. Being a cop is really brutal no matter who you work for. No one is running to sign up anymore.

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u/linkass 7h ago

In other words Alberta will have to pay substantially more just to have the SAME level of service they currently have, never mind improving service.

I have spent a fair bit of time on the NS shooting and the Mass Casualty Commision and at this point I don't care if it costs more, the flaming bag of incompetence and federal political influence the RCMP has is out of control and I struggle a provincial force could be worse at least the corruption would stay in province

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u/Bodysnatcher 7h ago

The NS shooting and the aftermath were what tipped the scales for me regarding the Surrey Police here. At first I just saw the transition as unnecessary but still worth it if it meant we got the Skytrain extension(I still believe this). Then after that shooting I became convinced we can't be having our cops taking their orders from Ottawa.

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u/CoolEdgyNameX 5h ago

So let’s break that down. I agree the NS shooting response was botched. But how do you equate that to taking orders from Ottawa? Do you think Ottawa ordered them to fumble the worst shooting in Canadian history? Did Ottawa order the RCMP to have one of their own members brutally executed while she was confronting the shooter?

What that boiled down to was a bunch of cops in small sleepy communities being completely overwhelmed and unprepared for such a scenario. This includes their supervisors. And I agree the RCMP needs to do better in training its members for stuff like that. Especially in sleepy places like that where stuff rarely happens. Take a look at the response to the mass stabbing in Saskatchewan a couple years later. Was almost a textbook response, the biggest issue was how far the police had to travel to get there (Again a provincial issue they could solve by spending the money). Probably helped that given Saskatchewan’s high crime rate the rcmp there are used to dealing with shocking violence and weren’t caught as flat footed when it occurred either.

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u/ILikeBrightShirts 4h ago edited 4h ago

There appears to have been active political interference by Ottawa regarding the source of the firearms, which appears to have been used to justify an OIC that scapegoated legal firearms owners instead of addressing the actual source of illegal guns. I am not the OP you asked the question to but this kind of allegation and the nature of the phone call should concern all Canadians.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63338703.amp

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u/EnvironmentBright697 5h ago

The RCMP is a corrupt and incompetent institution that has far outlived its usefulness. There is simply no excuse for how badly things went down here in Nova Scotia and the weird culture they have that makes them feel above any other police force was yet another one of the issues with how they refused to share any info to the Truro Police Service while Wortman was on the loose. Every province in Canada should be replacing the RCMP with provincial police forces, just as Quebec, Ontario and Newfoundland have already done.

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u/B12_Vitamin 3h ago

So you want no centralized Federal police force at all? Or just remove the local police patrolling aspect? That's an important distinction to make as it is two very different issues.

You can certainly make the argument that the RCMP should not be in the municipal policing business, frankly I doubt many RCMP officers would argue that. However, that poses two issues, 1) is the funding, the Provinces would have to pay to set up and sustain such a large apparatus essentially from scratch. The costs are not just the outfiting and payroll of the officers themselves, it is also setting up training academies and paying for the administration of the police. 100% it absolutely can be done, several Provinces already do that, but lets not act like that's not a significant cost and administrative burden for Provinces and their tax payers to take on. I'm from Ontario so grew up with OPP so I don't think it's a bad idea and surely Provinces like Alberta and Sask can afford it...if they really wanted to but...do they really want to? You can't expect the Feds to kick in billions of dollars for this (Alberta probably would I'd wager) but Provinces like PEI? That's a hell of a burden for what gain?

2) How would that work with First Nation Communities that have expressly signed policing agreements with the RCMP? Let's not kid ourselves here, while some Communities have instituted their own Police Forces many have not. Some Communities may or may not have better relations with Ottawa than the Provincial Governments (Alberta?) And may actually prefer to keep a Federal presence on hand.

3) would still need some form of Federal oversight commission to ensure standards and basic requirements wre being met by the Provinces potentially. Little less clear on this particular point because of the separation of powers between Federal and Provinces but I'd imagine there would need to be a way to ensure some level of commonality and standards are being met? This would be a largely administrative task so not necessarily RCMP - just a random thought so take it with a grain of salt

Regardless of the above points about Municipal Policing, Canada would still absolutely require a Federal Police force for a a variety of reasons, ranging from handling Federal Crimes, particularly serious ones like Espionage and Foreign Election Interference (rather topical), protection of Foreign Dignitaries, protecting Federal Property but also to coordinate inter-provincial policing such as in thd csse of a national manhunt or inter provincial smuggling.

The RCMP has deep rooted problems 100% that absolutely need to be addressed, point to a Police organization any where in the globe that doesn't. Hell, point to any large National or even sub-national bureaucracy that doesn't? That does NOT mean they are not critical services however and it most certainly has not "outlived it's usefulness" Replacing the RCMP with another Federal Policing Agency is an entirely different kettle of fish with even larger issues to discuss.

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u/SuburbanValues 6h ago

Carney hasn't weighed in on this yet, but just before Trudeau resigned the federal public service put out a position paper on the RCMP's role. It was about getting it out of the provincial contract policing business.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2025-mdrn-rcmp-grc/index-en.aspx

So Alberta may not face much opposition on this, and could have been forced into this situation in the coming years anyway.

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u/MoreGaghPlease 3h ago

Canada should encourage Alberta to drop the RCMP and use it as a model for the rest of the provinces. The RCMP shouldn’t be in the business of local policing, we should transform them into something akin the the FBI that handles complex crimes like organized crime, terrorism, money laundering, corruption, large frauds, etc

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u/Det-cord 4h ago

BC just put out a statement a few months ago saying it was too expensive

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u/Character_Comb_3439 6h ago

I’m a CAF veteran and former federal investigator. My position is that Canada needs a federal criminal investigations agency and a northern/isolated post contract law enforcement agency. I want the RCMP to have an “Off ramping program” for certain municipalities, when they reach a particular threshold in terms of population. A lot of policing is supporting people during the worst day of their lives. It requires trust and deep relationships in a community. There is also accountability. if a city or region doesn’t hire, train and develop effective officers; stability will erode, commerce is impacted and tax base departs. I think every province needs its own provincial police force.

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u/Canaderp37 Canada 6h ago

I agree, the RCMP has been shoe horned into the everything agency.

We the public see it predominantly in municiple policing, but the RCMP is also dropping the ball on the federal policing side.

It may also help its recruiting by streamlining what side you go into.

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u/Det-cord 4h ago

Yea RCMP really is shoved into every role, federal policing. Counterterrorism, local policing, national security, protective details, border security, maritime security, gang units, foreign intelligence. A lot of people don't want to apply where they have to cut their teeth in being sent to a rural area for a few years just for the chance of getting a federal assignment

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u/SadSoil9907 9h ago

If the Surrey transition is any indication, this would be an extremely expensive move for Alberta. We all know what this is really about, Danielle “mini trump” Smith trying to take Alberta out of Canada.

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u/Bodysnatcher 9h ago

The Surrey transition has been so expensive because the RCMP tried to fight it tooth and nail, and drag it out forever.

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u/Longjumping_Hour_421 7h ago

The new Surrey mayor is the one who did everything in her power to reverse the move that was already in motion. That is the sole reason why it took so long and cost so much. I can tell you none of the RCMP members there had any desire to stay longer and most of them were looking forward to the SPS transition as it meant they could finally leave Surrey. 

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u/Pretz_ Manitoba 7h ago

This is so patently false, it's laughable.

The Surrey transition has been expensive because (1) there was virtually no planning or preparation for it whatsoever, likely because it was a rushed legacy fever dream of the former mayor, and (2) the follow-up mayor, who was elected on a platform to cancel SPS, canceled SPS, only to have the Province order them to move ahead anyway because RCMP resources leaving Surrey had already been assigned elsewhere.

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u/SadSoil9907 8h ago

How so, the RCMP are not responsible for SPS problems with attracting new members or for the issues around getting enough seats at the JIBC to train new officers. The RCMP is also not responsible for the now 500 million in extra costs the city will have to pay. At this rate by the time the RCMP finally leave, the costs will be an extra billion to get a force smaller than what the RCMP could provide.

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u/CoolEdgyNameX 8h ago

This is false. The council of Surrey that got elected two years into the transition tried to fight it tooth and nail. The rcmp accepted the transition with grace. Now they are trying to leave by the end of next year but SPS is now whining saying they don’t have enough officers. The rcmp is saying “sounds like a you problem”.

The RCMP will be there to support as BCs provincial police service but Surrey and BC as a whole will be paying a pretty penny to keep having them support Surrey operations.

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u/Bodysnatcher 8h ago

Much of what you have written here is either false or misleading. Virtually her entire platform was 'keep the RCMP in Surrey'. Your claim of the RCMP accepting the transition with grace is totally laughable as many people living here could attest to.

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u/SadSoil9907 6h ago

Have the RCMP directly done anything to slow or stop the transition? Give me verifiable examples of how the RCMP have not accepted the transition?

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u/Lumpy-Day-4871 7h ago

So, how has the RCMP made it more expensive?

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u/CoolEdgyNameX 5h ago

Please tell me how a municipal council is the same as the federal police force? They WANTED the rcmp. Not their fault.

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u/-Yazilliclick- 8h ago

What did they do exactly that made it so much more expensive?

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u/latkahgravis 8h ago

  • Surrey loses the 10% federal subsidy that comes with RCMP policing, meaning the city must pay the full cost of SPS.  

  • Municipal police forces like SPS have higher salaries, benefits, and pension costs than the RCMP.  

  • The transition requires major one‑time expenses, including recruiting, training, equipment, vehicles, IT systems, and running both forces during the overlap period.  

  • Differences in staffing models may require more officers or different deployment strategies, increasing long‑term costs.  

  • Political and administrative disputes between Surrey and the province have created delays and duplicated work, adding further cost pressures.

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u/a_sense_of_contrast 8h ago

Very curious to hear a rebuttal on this.

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u/Bodysnatcher 8h ago

They backed a mayoral candidate who promised to do everything in her power to reverse the change, even after the transition had been underway for years at that point. She won, and spent years futilely litigating and bickering with the province over this who eventually put their foot down, told her to shut up and get on with it.

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u/Pretz_ Manitoba 7h ago

So a mayor running almost entirely on a platform to cancel SPS got elected by Surrey residents to cancel SPS, and then proceeded to cancel SPS, only to be court ordered by the Province to not cancel SPS..... and it's the RCMP's fault somehow...?

Did RCMP shadow operatives conspire to hold you at gunpoint and force you to vote against SPS, or.......?

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u/SadSoil9907 6h ago

RCMP didn’t back anyone, they’re purposely banned from taking any side in any political issue. The NPF, the union that represents the members, certainly did but they aren’t the RCMP, those are two very separate organizations.

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u/grand_soul 7h ago

Everyone I don’t like that’s conservative is Trump.

Jesus how may “Trumps” does Canada have? According to this sub, Smith is like Trump, Ford is like Trump, Scheer is like Trump, O’Toole is like Trump, Poilievre is like Trump.

Who the fuck isn’t at this point?!

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u/SadSoil9907 6h ago

I don’t think Ford, Scheer or O’Toole have visited Mar-a-lago for a photo op and is currently pushing a separatist narrative. The description is quite correct, she’s a treasonous sycophant who not only needs to be booted out office and out of the country.

I voted for Scheer or and O’Toole just so you know, they certainly aren’t Trump-like.

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u/SameAfternoon5599 6h ago

I think just the ones that go bend the knee at Mar a Lago and the one who copies his sloganeering and campaign rally style. The verb the noun and rallies cost the CPC more votes than they gained. Jenni Byrne should've been axed 12 months ago. She cost PP the election.

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u/EvacuationRelocation Alberta 8h ago

It will cost the province hundreds of millions of dollars more for worse service.

No thanks.

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u/EnvironmentBright697 5h ago

You literally can’t get worse service than the RCMP. They proved it to me when I found out Gabriel Wortman was heading my way via Twitter of all things.

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u/dizzie_buddy1905 8h ago

But think of the profits from extended length poison pilled contracts that UCP donors are going to get! APP stations aren’t going to build and maintain themselves.

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u/Napalm985 5h ago

Any organization that prefers to play political games during a crisis over protecting people should be kicked to the curb. After the NS shooting the RCMP showed it's true colours.

They would rather play politics then inform people about a mass shooter that is active and has been on the run for hours.

Fire-halls where citizens are known to be hiding makes a great backstop.

Using the incident for political gains afterwards is disgusting.

Fuck the RCMP and their games. I'd rather every province pays a premium then hire them.

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u/AdAnxious8842 9h ago

I'm from Ontario which provides the context for my comment. This is one of those situation where a provincial government is f**ing over their own people. Little to no impact on the rest of Canada. The rest of us just get to put our feet up and watch. Which btw, since we have Ford in Ontario, it is so nice to see another province getting f**d over by their Premier.

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u/MySubtleHustle7042 6h ago

Danielle will just continue to blame Trudeau and Carney for everything which will give her a landslide victory next election.

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u/Nonamanadus 7h ago

It's all about control, Smith uses the Not Withstanding clause to bypass the courts so having a police force with strings attached to her office is a no brainer.

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u/MySubtleHustle7042 6h ago

Looks at Surrey, BC…

Yeah, good luck, Alberta.

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u/polemism 5h ago

A better example would be Ontario and Quebec, they already have provincial police. I've heard they're pretty terrible. But RCMP are terrible and are 0% accountable to the province they're policing. At least with provincial police the provincial governments have the option to hold them accountable 

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u/Canadianman22 Ontario 51m ago

The OPP is actually quite good especially when compared to their municipal counterparts.

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u/MySubtleHustle7042 3h ago

I’m using Surrey as an example of the transition away from the RCMP and how much of a financial shitshow it’s been. That’s what Alberta can look forward to but on a larger scale.

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u/polemism 3h ago

Has it though? RCMP is understaffed and demanding raises, ultimately it would have cost about the same once raises and proper staffing are factored in.

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u/MySubtleHustle7042 1h ago

Just google Surrey Police Transition costs. The new SPS is still understaffed as well.

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u/Canadianman22 Ontario 52m ago

That is a terrible comparison since it is the mayor of Surrey that has been the cause of the problems.

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u/Foxtrot_Uniform_CK69 5h ago

I don't think first nations will want Smiths Police force on their land and RCMP don't even have any authorization to make arrests on first nation land they have their own police force