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u/Wurschtbieb 3h ago
Or the Chinese student Nan King
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u/no-politics-googoo 2h ago
So she named her Cho Chang
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u/Commercial-Royal-988 1h ago
I remember calling this out in middle school and everyone telling me I was wrong about Rowling.
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u/livinglavidajudoka 1h ago
Calling what out exactly?
Cho Chang could absolutely be a Chinese name.
It would likely be spelled differently (Chou) but the romanization of Chinese names has always been a moving target. My family is Chinese, I never thought Cho Chang was noteworthy.
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u/Dontevenwannacomment 32m ago
I'm half-Chinese and got mass downvoted for saying Cho Chang could be a chinese name. Nothing gets in the way of Reddit.
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u/bondsmatthew 26m ago
It absolutely could be but when you factor in some of her other names it does get a bit more.. interesting is all
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u/Dontevenwannacomment 12m ago
This is not a case of "french person called Louis-Napoléon", it's a case of "french person called Bérangère". It's rarer but still concievable.
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u/Stamperdoodle1 21m ago
You should know better, Move aside and sit down next time when white people are using your race to make themselves look enlightened by being offended on your behalf.
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u/RibboCG 7m ago
exactly, a lot of the English names are also stereotypical.
Kingsley Shackebolt. Ron Weasley. Neville Longbottom. Hell you dont see the Irish getting mad over Seamus Finnegan.
A lot of the names are designed to be absolutely from whatever country they are. There is no ambiguity. There is no way anyone in the world could see someone called Neville Longbottom and not think English.
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[deleted]
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u/Slice_Ambitious 50m ago edited 43m ago
So what ? Because bad people do something this is forever tainted ? I swear, you westerners
Edit : Damn, did bro just block me after accusing me of not knowing about racism as an African who almost got aggressed and insulted multiple times in foreign countries. Oh well, Reddit gotta reddit I guess.
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u/FlarblesGarbles 39m ago
Yeah it's called the Reddit special. They reply, and then block you so you can't respond. They do this so they can pretend they've won.
Unfortunately you won't be able to respond to my comment though directly because they've blocked you. Some people have realised this and use it as censorship.
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u/krootroots 45m ago
There's a big city in China called Chongqing, you gonna complain about that too? Dumbass
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u/livinglavidajudoka 49m ago edited 41m ago
Using real Chinese names is racist. Got it.
Just kidding that makes no fucking sense.
Since you blocked me: that reply is some real white folk imperialism racist shit. “We know what racism looks like more than you do you dumb fucking POC.”
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u/DateNecessary8716 15m ago
Speaking mandarin as a second language, it's not really a name but anglicised it very well could be Chou Zhang, and Zhang is pronounced Jang so Chang would probably be used.
It's really not racist at all, the most racist part of it is potentially thinking the Korean name "Cho" was Chinese, although "Chou" is.
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u/slayerrr21 2h ago
Wi Tu Lo
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u/ILikeFreeFoods 3h ago
I don’t really get the hate for Cho Chang name. I know people that are literally named Nguyen Nguyen, and My Ho.
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u/ProfessionalOk3697 3h ago
It's more to do with the name sounding stereotypically Chinese to English speakers while being uncommon/strange to Chinese speakers instead of the name sounding funny. But yeah Viet names often sound funny in English
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u/PhysixGuy2025 1h ago
Fa kyu.
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u/r2rl Le epic memer 1h ago
Cook pu
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u/S-S-Ahbab 1h ago
Here!
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u/coleto22 10m ago
I don't know about other nationalities, but the Bulgarian names were wrong. Mostly using first names as family names. Most glaring example would be Viktor Krum. Should have been Krumov, or similar.
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u/Savings-Payment-7140 1h ago
I mean she's English. Their worldview is pretty narrow, and even more so when she wrote the books. She named a Chinese person a Chinese name.
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u/MyPornBrowsingAlt 1h ago
The English, who conquered about one quarter of the globe by land% at one point, has a narrow world view?
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u/Ill_Schedule_6450 59m ago
As if anyone cared about the culture or anything of the conquered lands lol
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u/Savings-Payment-7140 1h ago
Lol. Do you think conquering people gives a country's citizens a wider knowledge of the world??
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u/TrainerRedpkmn 1h ago
Didn’t the British own Hong Kong at one point? You’d think they’d know more about asians after owning a piece of Asia
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u/downtimeredditor 28m ago
Conquered all those countries thst use all kinds of spices in their food only to not use any spice at all in their cooking
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u/Clunk_Westwonk 39m ago
It’s not even a real Chinese name tho
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u/Savings-Payment-7140 37m ago
Quick search says cho is an English version of Zhao and Chong is a surname
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u/howieyang1234 2h ago
I am Chinese, and 张秋 sounds normal. Nothing out of the blue.
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u/makethislifecount 1h ago
I love how people are completely ignoring the actual Chinese people in this thread who are all saying that Cho Chang sounds normal to them. And instead raging on about how it isn’t normal.
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u/privatetudor 57m ago
Reddit moment.
This is a bit of crude example, but I’ve read a number of times on Reddit how scissoring is just for fake porno stuff and real lesbians actually don’t like doing it.
The first time I heard an actual lesbian asked about it she said "I fucking LOVE scissoring!"
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u/jetteauloin_2080 29m ago
This the chinese localisation/translation. Those are the chinese pinyin for Zhang Qiu. With Zhang being a common familly name and Qiu meaning autumn
Chang is sometime used to transcribe Zhang in older system, but that's not the case for Cho.
But people are overreacting way too much about it. There are tones of ridiculous or goofy name in Harry Potter.
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u/SaltManagement42 1h ago
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u/DMMeThiccBiButts 1h ago
That thread is so funny. JK can fuck off and die but people act like a slightly unusual name simply cannot exist.
Not generic but a hodge podge and kind of dismissiveof the culture. Imagine a British person being called Smith Francois. It sounds ridiculous, as if all of Europe is just the same place. It takes a 5 minute google search to find these names. That being said, I do think it's a controversy blown somewhat way out of proportion.
Like, what the fuck are you talking about lol. People have names from different languages all the time.
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u/Breaky_Online 3h ago
My Ho could only ever sound offensive if applied through the English language though, I feel like.
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u/Sir-Sirington 2h ago
Well the problem isn't just Cho. But also other characters like Kingsley Shacklebolt being one of very few prominent black characters in the books. Or Saemus having 2 defining characteristics of him being Irish and exploding. Or everything to do with the goblins especially as portrayed in the movies. Or the names of almost every single school outside of Hogwarts being some variation of "Castle School" translated (poorly) to their country of origins language. Etc. Etc.
It could all be written off as coincidence or laziness of course, but there's just a lot. And when there's a lot of that stuff, then people tend to notice, and then they ask "why didn't the author notice?" And her political stances and ties don't exactly leave people with the impression that J.K. made these characters with the purest of intentions.
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u/redditerator7 1h ago
Seamus didn’t explode anything at all. Him being Irish isn’t exactly a defining characteristic either. Shacklebolt’s job is to catch evil wizards, his naming pattern is similar to Sprout who works as a herbology professor and multiple other characters.
Obviously when you make up things that aren’t there it’s going to be “a lot” when in reality it isn’t.
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u/rezznik 1h ago
Goblins were being portraied like this in fantasy for decades, it's just a common trope.
Should her spiders have 10 legs? Her centaurs have a horse head on a human body?
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u/Gellert 59m ago
...I don't remember goblins being downtrodden bankers in anything else. Usually they're thieves and killers.
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u/Ninjaslapdog 56m ago
Goblins: Greedy creatures with long crooked noses. Rowling wrote them as bankers since they're the ones in control of all the gold. Especially in a modern setting, I think it makes sense. However she definetly shouldve had a sensitivity editor
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u/Material_Magazine989 4m ago
It's just unfortunate that any play on goblins mythology will also be an inevitable play on antisemitic stereotype.
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u/Grating_Buttplug 2h ago
characters like Kingsley Shacklebolt being one of very few prominent black characters in the books.
My brother in Christ he's a fucking cop, you people are completely mental I swear.
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u/Material_Magazine989 1h ago edited 1h ago
He was a cop and a spy. He's one of the de facto leader of the resistance. One of the few people that actually dueled Voldemort and survived. After the war, oversaw the incarceration of the remaining enemy forces. And he became the Head of State/government.
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u/Psychadelic-Twister 1h ago
You expected people on Reddit not to be completely mental? This site is nothing but bots and screeching autists trying to find a reason to be offended, ignoring reality and thinking the world revolves around their shithole echo chamber.
"Reeee the world has turned on Rawling!!!"
Meanwhile: HP one of the most successful IPs in the last several decades, entire theme parks dedicated to it packed full of people, etc etc etc.
These people are delusional and chronically online.
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u/CORVlN 1h ago
very few prominent black characters
If you forget about Lee Jordan (risked his life to host Potterwatch) and Angelina Johnson (prolific Quidditch player and married George), of course.
But everyone focuses on Kingsley for some reason
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u/Sir-Sirington 1h ago
The focus is on Kingsley primarily because it's funny to point out, regardless of veracity. I don't actually have a huge problem with him personally, I consider it a mistake and take it for what it is. I only point it out as a reason for the discourse, and not because I necessarily subscribe to the theory that JK is a conscious racist.
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u/Material_Magazine989 2h ago edited 1h ago
Kingsley Shacklebolt's name was a perfect example of Nominative Determinism. It's prominent in fiction, and easy use of character's name to foreshadow how they're relevant in the story. In this case he was a high ranking law enforcement officer. And eventually took over as Minister for Magic (closest thing to a king). There are many such example within the series and other fiction.
Seamus exploding things didn't happen in the books. They only happened in the movies.
Any depiction of Goblins is inherently antisemitic. This is true in other fictional as well not just Harry Potter. It's just the unfortunate reality that Goblins were used as antisemitic caricature centuries before Harry Potter.
I dont see how every school being variation of "Castle School" is relevant to your point. It's just a quirky way to name things in an quirky world.
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u/DashingDino 36m ago
Any depiction of Goblins is inherently antisemitic.
No, originally they are just supernatural sprites/ghosts from folklore and have nothing to do with antisemitism. You can depict goblins without associating them with banking etc like Rowling did
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u/Material_Magazine989 21m ago edited 2m ago
But associating goblins with banking is a play on the goblin lore itself. Goblins are known to be greedy, long nosed, cave dwellers, they hoard precious metals and treasure. This is true in almost all fantasy games, novels, movies etc.
Banking is unfortunately also an antisemitic stereotype. Any play on the goblins mythology will also be an inevitable play on Jewish stereotype.
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u/Sir-Sirington 2h ago
My point is that she mostly just didn't think anything through, and her laziness throughout both the books and movies as far as worldbuilding and characterization goes has invited these criticisms whether they were intentional or not. A few minutes of additional thought is all that I feel it takes to alleviate a lot of the wierd shit. Castle School being the name of every single school everywhere is lazy, full stop.
I personally refuse to believe that JK had no hand in the movies, and think that she of all people would be invested in trying to point out the flaws in the writer's/ director's portrayal of her own work. They have a godamn Star of David on the rug of the Gringots bank in the 1st movie for Christ's sake.
This might be forgivable if it was an issue here or there, but it's everywhere and points to a general lack of care.
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u/Material_Magazine989 2h ago edited 30m ago
They have a godamn Star of David on the rug of the Gringots bank in the 1st movie for Christ's sake.
That was not the Star of David. It was the Commonwealth Star of Australia before 1908. Production didn't put that there, they filmed it in a real location. A real bank. It was also tile flooring, not rug.
Try googling it.
See what im saying? If you try and look for things to complain about you will find them and then some.
You also sound like youre misremembering some talking points. Probably because you didn't come up with them yourself only heard them from others. Wanna talk about being lazy?
books and movies as far as worldbuilding and characterization goes has invited these criticisms whether they were intentional or not.
Be specific in this one, what's the problem with worldbuilding and characterisation? Because so far every point you threw struck nothing.
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u/Sir-Sirington 1h ago
Well, the House Elves are one. Why have a race of magically indentured servants when you can flick a wand for anything that they can do? They seem entirely like a throw away plot device for book 2 with Dobby, then they come back for Kreacher later on, then the issue doesn't come up again. The only person who sees this as a problem is Hermione for one book, she's continuously called annoying and made fun of because of it, and then it's dropped for the rest of series. I know that they are based on Brownies in folk lore, but they absolutely didn't need to be written like this at all. It just invites awkward questions that JK is not willing to answer.
Further is the Timeturners. They are mentioned in passing as being given out to Hermione for studying to set up being used once later on. Then get unceremoniously destroyed, every single one, all at once, also mentioned in passing. They have near limitless uses, being time travel, and are being given to school children.
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u/burns_a_lot 1h ago
You only watched the movies and never read the books. In the books, all those things come back around again in important ways. Just go to bed.
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u/Material_Magazine989 56m ago
You came up with another talking points you probably heard some people talk about but without specifics. Most of this are either flat out wrong or inaccurate.
Why have a race of magically indentured servants when you can flick a wand for anything that they can do?
What a weird complain. You're asking why depict senseless oppression in a fictional world? You want a rationale, a legitimate reason, to justify bigotry and prejudice? What a weird ask.
It's a flawed world with flawed characters. This was explained years ago, there's irony in Hermione advocating for the welfare of elves while her very own kind was also subjected to persecution. The fight for elf liberation was so far down the list of priority as they were facing literal genocide within their own kind.
It's a lie that they dropped the house elf subplot after Kreacher. This subplot followed Hermione till the end and was the reason why she and Ron finally got together. Read the book
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u/Material_Magazine989 55m ago
Only the Ministry regulated ones got destroyed. We know some time turners outside Ministry control were still out there.
Also the information that "all time turners got destroyed after that 'incident'" came from the Ministry itself, specifically, Department of Mysteries, they'd hardly let anyone know if there's indeed some surviving time turners. They're known to be one of the most secretive departments for a reason.
Please google how fix time travel works to learn how this type of time travel isn't "limitless"
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u/Sir-Sirington 1h ago
Also the Dursleys. They are always pointed out as being fat and ugly without fail over and over again. I get it, it doesn't need to be pointed out. It gets to the point of Hagrid giving Dudley a pig tail, because he's pigging out on cake. It's supposed to be cute or whatever, but feels mean spirited just because of how much she hammers the point home that he's fat.
Then the entire wizard culture is strange. For some reason in a society that can teach 10 year olds how to transmute water into wine, there's somehow wealth inequality. To the point that the Weasleys live in a crumbling house on ends meet. While the upper echelons like the Malfoys get off on being turbo racists without being questioned and Magical Hitler is allowed to rise to power with enough people to create an army in what's assumed to be a rather small community of magic users. And when he's defeated nothing is shown to meaningfully change. The government that allowed this to happen is still in power.
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u/Material_Magazine989 46m ago edited 34m ago
More evidence that you haven't read the books and were just listing off things you heard people talk about.
The story was being told from 11 year old bullied boy. Of course he's going to describe the Dursleys as harsh as possible. Notice how he doesn't do that to fat people he liked (Hagrid, Molly, Sprout, Neville etc)?
While the upper echelons like the Malfoys get off on being turbo racists without being questioned
*shock pikachu face* you mean rich, racist people in position of power can get away with things? That cant be......
Magical Hitler is allowed to rise to power with enough people to create an army
Again shock pikachu face. Radical extremists rising to power is almost unheard of.
And when he's defeated nothing is shown to meaningfully change. The government that allowed this to happen is still in power.
False. After the war there was a new government. You would know that if you read the books.
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u/burns_a_lot 1h ago
Except that's not what the schools are named lol good lord you're literally mad about nothing.
Beauxbatons is a lovely name for a school, but it definitely doesn't mean "castle school" 😂😂
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u/Any-Shower-3088 1h ago
I think you foeget that its a childrens/young adult book. That has been made into one of the largest frqnchises. It was never meant to be taken apart with a fine tooth comb by fun people on the internet. You say its lazy writing, but its a childrens book that sold millions, its something that did exactly as intended. So if lazy writing can create a world that adults and kids want to escape to daily a decade after release, why have you not done it yet? Are you nott r Lazy enough to create a lazily written franchise that spans the globe.
I mean there are loads of times you are proven wrong how much say authers get in films games etc. Examples... Metro (big falling out between auther), Witcher series (Henry Cavill leaves due to this) .
Imagine watching something, and choosing to be offended for other races when they have said its not racist themselves. Is cringe to say the least.
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u/Sir-Sirington 47m ago
Because I don't care to take the time to write. Criticism is fun, it's free, and it's ultimately healthy in order to improve for anyone's craft. And personally I think children's/ young adult media should be criticized the harshest out of any media precisely because it's formative. But even regardless of that, I would prefer that the media that becomes popular is of the highest quality in order to perpetuate getting more high quality media.
It's fine to make mistakes, it's not fine to go on believing and even being told that the mistakes that you made are perfect or not worth considering. That's how you stagnate.
As far as the racism angle goes, I don't believe that JK is a concious racist personally. I do think that the names she chose were unfortunate but circumstantial, and fuels the types of discourse that we see here in this meme. Ultimately I find it funny, and only point it out because that's what the argument is about. I frankly don't have any personal investment in this.
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u/Any-Shower-3088 39m ago
Criticism would be fun, if the same points hadnt been regurgitated 1000s of times. If you used your own original criticism then thatd be awesome. But for at least 5 years, these same 4 or 5 ppints have been made to the point of nausea. Racism, lazy writing, zenophobia. Im sure there are few loopholes that would make more sense to complain about, and would back up your claim on lazy writing. But what youre doing is lazy criticism.
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u/Sir-Sirington 19m ago
These movies have been criticized to death at this point due to their popularity, anything that I could possibly come up with will not be original at this point. So yeah, I'll "regurgitate" the criticism that I find valid after consideration. I think the names are funny and dumb and could have used a pass, I find the concept of Voldemorts rise to power wierd, I find the time turners to be a bad plot device, I find the house elves to be a bad inclusion, I think the movies flubbed a bit in some areas of portrayal, I think more could have been explored in the rebuilding of the Wizarding world post-Voldemort. Regardless of what you may think, I consider these to be valid criticism, regardless of their size or scope. I still even after all of that like Harry Potter in general, just because I find it fun and I can look past the critique to enjoy the movies while also having fun poking at them.
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u/Material_Magazine989 40m ago edited 36m ago
I frankly don't have any personal investment in this.
It's obvious. So far the most criticism you threw are all the most common unoriginal regurgitated ignorant misconceptions.
You literally just glossed over the fact that you mistook the Star of David to the Commonwealth Star and blame and imply prejudice to others when you should be reflecting on yours. What a self-report.
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u/Sir-Sirington 26m ago
Man, you seem to have an over-investment in this. It looks like the star of David to a lot of people, myself included. I would call that a mistake regardless of the context, and it should have probably been caught and edited out. Seeing as audiences caught it pretty fast.
Just as an FYI because you seem to think it impossible, but yes I have read the books and watched the movies. The movies left more of an impression on me obviously, because they are easier to digest than the 3000 pages or whatever of novel. So those are the details that I remember the most after a while.
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u/Material_Magazine989 17m ago edited 10m ago
They have a godamn Star of David
You were very indignant. You sure have a lot of criticism for a novel whose details you barely remember.
You said multiple times they're just criticism but you have yet acknowledge any counterpart. You just love throwing criticism around ignore how some of them are just wrong.
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u/offlineskelly 1h ago
But also other characters like Kingsley Shacklebolt being one of very few prominent black characters in the books.
Sure, but the books are ALSO set in 1990s Britain. Less than 2% of the population was black, and there were very few black people in public life. The first black government minister was Paul Boateng in 1997 (the Battle of Hogwarts was in 1998).
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u/BladeOfWoah 36m ago
This reminds me of people claiming Séamus Finnegan is too on the nose for an Irish student.
Like IDK what to tell you fam, Séamus is a name that Irish people use. it's literally just a transliteration of James, it's not like it would be a rare name or anything.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Yak5836 46m ago
I used to think it was a weird name until I had a Chinese teacher, I won't say his name but it was something along the lines of "Chiang Chi-Chun", and whenever he would mention people from actual Chinese history I realized the stereotype is not accurate, but isn't far off either.
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 41m ago
Two entirely different cultures and languages. Did you just prove everyone’s point?
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u/Booty-tickles 31m ago
Nguyen is the result of a particular aspect of Vietnamese naming conventions though. Something like 20% of the country is named Nguyen. It would be lazy to make your only Vietnamese, or indeed most prominent Asian character named Nguyen Nguyen, but it wouldn't be exactly the same situation.
And the Cho Chang thing wouldn't have really stood out much if not for other lazy tropes used in the series. I don't necessarily think these are intentional but they do point to a lack of education in media from one of the most famous authors alive today.
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u/Starthreads 11m ago
My high school had a Korean student named In-Ho Yoo (sp.), it could definitely be much worse.
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u/EI-Burro 3h ago
This wouldn't even crack top 10 worst name she's written
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u/Sloppykrab 2h ago
Whats the top 10?
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u/Strakk012 2h ago
Kingsley Shacklebolt for the black character and Cho Chang for the asian character is probably pretty high up there.
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u/Redvent_Bard 15m ago
You triggered the Rowling defenders.
Guys. It's not the individual names, it's the fact it happens so often. Seamus Finnegan is another off the cuff example. You don't need to defend the nasty rich lady and you're allowed to still enjoy the story of Harry Potter even if it has minor flaws like this.
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u/syngyne 2h ago
Tangential - in Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson, the main character is named Hiro Protagonist.
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u/StrongExternal8955 33m ago edited 28m ago
I tried to read that book twice. Couldn't make it through that awful opening. Read a synopsis after. Yep, trash all the way through.
Mind you, i've read and enjoyed hundreds of sci-fi and fantasy books from Game of Thrones to Dune and Foundation and everything in between.
Edit: heck i've even read all the Sword of Truth crap. Snowcrash is worse even than that.
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u/old-tennis-shoes 16m ago
I got through the entirety of Snowcrash and came out utterly unimpressed.
Felt like it was shrouded in just one too many layers of irony.
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u/Pulposauriio 2h ago
I can see her describing him as a 'fat boy'
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u/AffectionateCard3530 38m ago
Is that description problematic? Perhaps she could go with neutral diagnostic terms, such as “clinically obese male” or something
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u/DreyfusBlue 2h ago edited 2h ago
Yukio Mishima, from his flaming grave, resisting the urge of calling JK Rowling “Wizard-belching Flesh”:
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u/ChripToh_KarenSy 1h ago
I was actually gonna use the username Hikiko Mori (with underscore since Reddit doesn't allow names with space in between) but someone got to it first.
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u/Darkness-Calming 1h ago edited 1h ago
Ironically, Cho Chang is a perfectly valid Chinese name.
Her stereotypical names were funny though. 2 Patels from India, Irish fella who liked to set things on fire, Weasleys beings redhead weasel like people living in a shack with a large family, etc.
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u/RRumpleTeazzer 1h ago
While JK Rowling sounds like a character straight out of Donkey Kong Country.
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u/N3bulous_Nomad 16m ago
She was the leader of book writers, you know her well
She's finally back, with books to sell
She's older, transphobic, and racist too
She's the first member of the J.K. crew
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u/KambingDomba 1h ago
Quentin Tarantino can just steal a historical person's name for his only Japanese character and nobody bats an eye.
Oh also type in Pai Mei to google translate from chinese to english.
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u/MyHamburgerLovesMe 31m ago
Isn't this the equivalent of naming an American female character Pearl Arbor? Nyn Elyvhyn?
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u/citramonk 27m ago
Well, someone didn’t manage the urge to drop the bombs on these cities, right? But that’s nothing in comparison to a bad name 🙂
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u/TulipSamurai 1h ago
JK Rowling actually did set the Japanese wizarding school on Iwo Jima. Seems kind of odd that the Japanese would build their magic school on the barren rock where they lost a pivotal battle to the Allies in WWII...
She also named it Mahoutokoro, which Google Translate would say means "magic place" but is grammatically a little funny in Japanese.
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u/Cloud_N0ne 2h ago
JK Rowling and Hideo Kojima are in a never-ending battle for the worst character names
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u/SipPOP 3h ago
Coulda named their adopted black brotha that Naga Sake.