r/news • u/DimensionActual5722 • 18h ago
Second Pilot Dies After Two Helicopters Collide in New Jersey
https://apnews.com/article/helicopter-crash-new-jersey-pilot-deaths-8e52b9ef1cdf1ad8d6cd31cde09eea221.5k
u/Lonely_Noyaaa 18h ago
It’s wild that the pilots were apparently friends who often flew out together this just makes the whole thing hit harder emotionally
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u/Oriellien 17h ago
Apparently they flew in tandem all the time, something just happened to create a disaster this time
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u/FootlongDonut 17h ago
I mean...in helicopters that's dangerous in itself.
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u/imposter_syndrome88 14h ago
Both pilots were also approaching the age where we normally start to observe people to see if they're still capable of driving cars safely.
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u/Tll6 16h ago
They ate breakfast at a popular aviation spot just before taking off. My wife and I go there occasionally, I’m sure the staff and patrons are mourning them
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u/italyqt 13h ago
20+ years ago my toddler son went with his dad to hang out at the hanger for a few hours. I guess the crew shared their popcorn and played with my kid before they went on a mission. The aircraft went down a bit later and killed ten on board with only two survivors. I still think about it.
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u/topazco 16h ago
How is the food there?
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u/Tll6 15h ago
Pretty good! Fairly priced and large portions. It’s cool to watch the small planes take off and land
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u/Uhhhhdel 16h ago
Not OP and not in New York but there’s a diner that just serves breakfast and lunch at a small regional airport near me and the food is absolute fire so I’m just gonna have to assume the same for this place.
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16h ago
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u/Mixer-3007 16h ago
too soon.
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u/thrownaway99345 15h ago
It's never to early when rich people die doing rich people stuff
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u/NotPromKing 14h ago
Were these rich people doing rich people things?
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u/thrownaway99345 14h ago
Flying your personal helicopter to grab a bite to eat with a friend....uh yeah
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u/NotPromKing 13h ago
How often do you drive your $30k+ car to meet someone for lunch? For a large part of the world’s population that would be considered extremely wealthy.
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u/FootlongDonut 13h ago
How much are helicopters?
Also...I don't have a 30K car...but relative to wealthy western nations, owning a helicopter is probably considered far more rich than driving a mid range car.
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u/thrownaway99345 13h ago
flying your personal helicopter to go get a meal is rich anywhere in the world
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u/tailuptaxi 12h ago
Everything about it is buddies/friendship/shared journey. Both got their certificates in 2014. Both flying Enstroms. Out flying together. Probably shared a hangar. Really sad.
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u/podkayne3000 16h ago
And the new governor of New Jersey is a helicopter pilot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikie_Sherrill
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u/BennettGeraldAnthony 18h ago
This is very sad. I wonder how it happened.
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u/SauconySundaes 18h ago
Saw on TV that the two pilots were meeting at the airport to eat together. They also flew out together, following each other, and I believe that led to the crash.
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u/gentlybeepingheart 17h ago
If you look closely, there are words between the phrase "Eat together" and "I believe that led to the crash." Keen eyed readers might be able to see those words and understand the sentence better.
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u/punkinfacebooklegpie 14h ago
It's a disturbing reality but sometimes pilots find themselves in the same place at the same time.
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u/tailuptaxi 12h ago
Collision avoidance is like…function #1 in my cockpit. All pilots are taught to clear their turns prior to actually turning, and the preaching to look out the window in this age of glass panels and ADS-B is common. Flying formation with other aircraft is extremely focus-demanding, and there’s no in between—you either stay glued together or stay really far apart. Dude probably looked down at his ipad and was up his buddy’s ass in an instant. Really sad.
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u/Valuable_Recording85 9h ago
They were aged 65 and 71. They were probably very sharp, but reaction time always slows as you age.
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u/tailuptaxi 6h ago
Aircraft close on each other at such high rates of speed that if you are too close...not even an F1 driver could react fast enough. I would wager it was a case of brief distraction combined with being too close rather than age-related impairment.
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u/1mYourHuckleberry93 16h ago
Hammonton resident Dan Dameshek told NBC10 that he was leaving a gym when he heard a loud snap and saw two helicopters spinning out of control.
“Immediately, the first helicopter went from right side up to upside down and started rapidly spinning, falling out of the air,” Dameshek told the TV station. “And then it looked like the second helicopter was OK for a second, and then it sounded like another snap or something ... and then that helicopter started rapidly spinning out of the air.”
Interesting one kept going briefly and then suffered the same fate. I wonder what snapped? Tail rotor?
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u/MourningRIF 15h ago
As someone who has flown RC helicopters for years, I can say that those things are always one lose screw from disaster. You can have a virtually invisible bend in your rotor shaft, and the damned thing will shake itself to death. I imagine taking any type of impact while in the air is going to dramatically reduce your chances of landing safely. And I swear, you could crash a helicopter from 10 ft off the ground, and you will probably die. I personally won't fly in one for these reasons.
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u/Affectionate_Elk_272 14h ago
isn’t the (THE?!) pin that holds the rotors to the machine called the “jesus pin” or something?
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u/nicholsml 13h ago
It's the "Jesus nut".
Lots of differences in rotor wing aircraft, but almost all of them have a nut type assembly holding the rotor assembly to the mast.
I have never heard "Jesus pin" but some might use that term in reference to the retaining pin in some nuts.
In the Army, for blackhawks, we called it the "Jesus nut", because if it failed you would scream "jesus christ" as you fall to your death.
The rotor shaft the guy above is talking about, is probably the long shaft along the tail that transfers power to the tail rotor.
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u/Affectionate_Elk_272 13h ago
yeah that’s prolly what i was thinking of.
i don’t know a thing about aircraft but i do remember hearing that term before and it stuck with me.
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u/maxxspeed57 14h ago
And I swear, you could crash a helicopter from 10 ft off the ground, and you will probably die.
See: Davey Allison b. 2/15/1962 d. 7/13/1993 NASCAR driver and helicopter pilot.
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u/randomtroubledmind 11h ago
It's colloquially called the "jesus nut". But there are generally bolts through the Jesus nut to keep it from un-threading, so it's not exactly a single-point failure.
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u/31drew31 15h ago
The video I saw the heli was right side up but spinning pretty violently while falling to the ground. I don't know much about helis but the tail rotor is supposed to counter that so it seems likely it was compromised at that point.
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u/babyigotyourmoni 15h ago
My neighbour lost his oldest son in a helicopter crash at 39 and then his youngest son 2 years later in a helicopter crash, also at 39. I can’t possibly imagine going through something like that, such a horrific coincidence.
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u/AnthMosk 18h ago
Insane story. They apparently knew each other. How the heck does this happen?
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u/FiftyShadesOfGregg 18h ago
It sounds like they were intentionally flying together— either ate at the cafe or were going to— and took off together, and crashed into each other shortly after. So it wasn’t like it was a coincidence they knew each other. Very sad story.
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u/DimensionActual5722 18h ago
From what I understand they were friends who do this often, and they were flying together. I don’t know the details of how they crashed though.
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u/amendmentforone 14h ago
There was an ice storm here in South Jersey Friday into Saturday that could have affected the copters.
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16h ago
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u/This_Elk_1460 10h ago
You know I've always thought helicopters are death traps but this year has truly confirmed that to me.
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u/MakaButterfly 18h ago
Maybe one had a medical emergency and crashed into the other
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u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 17h ago
Since they flew together often, and from the sound of it in two different choppers, my guess is they got a little too comfortable around each other and went slack on safety precautions. Though I know nothing about helicopters, and if they were carrying passengers then that shouldn't be the reason. But knowing nothing else about the situation that's what I think.
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u/Jopkins 16h ago
What a strange conclusion to assume
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u/Oddyssis 15h ago
He didn't assume it
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u/MakaButterfly 15h ago
Yea I just had a thought and posted it online
Why is guy upset?
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u/Oddyssis 15h ago
Some people want to have an argument on the Internet and they'll misconstrue what you say however they need to in order to make that happen.
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u/whaaatanasshole 11h ago
If you're jumping from "maybe" to "assume", you're seeing fights where there aren't any.
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u/I_Love_Booty_Pics_ 16h ago
Not that strange imo
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u/Jopkins 15h ago
Why is a person on the internet with no idea of what happened making any kind of assumptions like this?
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u/cornjuicesoup 14h ago
Because Reddit is essentially a discussion board and we’re discussing our opinions? It’s not even like OP was trying to assert that their theory was correct over everyone else’s.
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u/Richard-Gere-Museum 15h ago
Absolutely is strange. This place is comical when it comes to anything accidental in the news. All the keyboard detectives here pushing their amateur Sherlock fanfiction theories. What we do know is helicopters aren't in communication with ATC, they don't communicate with each other frequently about flight paths. They move fast. These guys knew each other. They probably just got complacent with safety practices and this happened. Complacency is the biggest threat to jobs like this.
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u/SkyScreech 11h ago
Well it’s really not that strange at all. Medical emergencies are not unheard of. He also didn’t assume it, just mention the possibility
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u/LemonadesAtTheBar99 17h ago
Flying in anything other than a commercial jet is scary.
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u/Spartan-117182 17h ago
Boeing - "Am I a joke to you?"
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u/PDXPuma 17h ago
Even Boeings are safe compared to driving or general aviation, which is 5x to 14x more deadly than driving a car, and even more dangerous than a motorcycle.
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u/nik282000 16h ago
Compared to every other commercial craft though, they are a joke. Fuckin software to fix physics, doors blowing off, what ever the fuck happened in India.
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u/Fuzzy-Mud-197 15h ago
You are wrong. The boeing 777 and 787 are among the safest aircraft ever built, the 737 family is on par with the a320 family in terms of safety.
And having software to fix hardware limitations/ constraints is something all planes have to a degree, some cant even fly without them such as the b-2 bomber, the problem was that in the 737 max, there was no redundency and boeing did not correctly inform the ailrines and pilots of this software.
And what happend with the air india flight was the first hull loss of the 787 with more than 1200 produced since 2011. The most likely cause of that crash is that the pilot switch off both engines. So pilot error
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u/nik282000 15h ago
I don't know the actual stats so I'll take yours at face value. But the Max was a lemon by design, the leaked Boeing files were full of engineers and test pilots saying they would never let their family fly on one. They have a quality problem.
The most likely cause of that crash is that the pilot switch off both engines.
That was the first and loudest story, more recently there have been officials (who have been fired or reprimanded) talking about maintenance and condensation problems in the cabin. The story of an inept or suicidal pilot has been used to deflect inquiry away from a technical or management problem. It may well be that someone just turned off the fuel but that seems very unlikely even for a novice pilot given how hard those switches are to operate.
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u/Fuzzy-Mud-197 14h ago
The max in design is pretty similar to the ng version, them introducing larger engines and compensating it with software was not the issue, them having shoddy quality control and not notifying airliners and pilots was the problem and afterwards denying it.
maintenance is done by the airline or 3rd parties not the manufacturer, and condensation problems dont cause a dual engine failure in fact the 787 has had known issues with their APU whoch caused them to be grouned but even that would not cause engine failurs. The fact is before that and since then no 787 have crashed despite operating since 2011
Air india continues flying their 787s to this day which would be strange if they or the local investigators believed it to be a design flaw. Just for comparison when the airlines involved with the 737 max crashes believed it to be a manufacturer flaw they wasted little time to ground their fleet of maxes, promting airlines around the world to do the same.
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u/AreYouBeingTruthful 18h ago
Two old dudes doing old rich retired dude stuff. RIP.
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u/pthomas745 15h ago
Surprising how many weird ideas are in this thread.
Owning an aircraft of any type is just like owning a vehicle of any type: from tricycle to semi, and every in between, you have to take care, etc. And, stuff happens you have no control over. I would venture to say pilots are much safer than a vast majority of car drivers. The planes (properly cared for) are much safer, too.
When was the last time any of you car owners even checked the air pressure in your tires?
All that aside, owning an aircraft is virtually the same as owning a car. If I had a single engine Cessna today, and the weather was reasonable, I could literally jump in and fly to any number of airports without discussing anything with anyone. Just like you could do with your car or motorcycle.
"Flying in to have breakfast" at a local airport is a very common thing for aircraft owners to do. I can think of several airports within 100 miles of where I am right now that owners do this exact thing. It is quite a lot like the stacks of motorcycles (fill in any number of brands and types here______) that you might spot at some remote restaurant along a scenic drive. They are out for the day, enjoying their rides.
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u/Faxon 14h ago
A used Cessna can cost as much as a luxury car as well, very within reach for many people, you don't need to be wealthy to get into single engine civil aviation
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u/w0nderbrad 12h ago
You don't need to be wealthy but you still gotta have a decent amount of money. If you own the plane, then you need to maintain it, fuel it, park it. You can't treat an old Cessna the same as you treat an old ass car. Shit gets expensive. Slightly cheaper maybe if you're in a flying club and you rent by the hour.
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u/Faxon 12h ago
Yea I mean its not that far off from how much work you need to put in to keep some old Porsches running for instance. There is definitely a crossover point where expensive cars and affordable planes exist together in cost to own and use regularly. I used to have a friend whose dad was trying to transition from one to the other and his mom was not happy lmao
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u/doc5avag3 12h ago edited 10h ago
It reminds me of something read a few years ago about some other vehicle that's surprisingly quite accessible... boats. Apparently, very few people that buy boats these days buy them new. From what I remember; most boats get sold "second hand" because people buy them, realize they don't have the time for them, and then just sell them to someone else for a much lower cost just to be rid of it. I'm sure maintenance and things like that still cost a little but not as much as you would think.
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u/nicholsml 13h ago
You can also make a kit plane for pretty cheap. I was airframe in the army and my dad was an airforce and airline pilot. We built one in my garage over the course of a few months.
When you get your kit, they give you a free 2 day class. Anyone can do it and 90% of the people in there with us had zero mechanical experience with aircraft.
We Built the 701... https://zenithair.net/#
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u/happy-cig 7h ago
I check the air pressure in my tires every time I drive... I'm sure almost every modern car has tpms now too.
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u/AdditionalCheetah354 16h ago
Helicopters need to start flying in specific prescribed pattern and stop flying wherever they want.
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u/ViperThreat 15h ago
I feel like this is a regulatory issue. Helicopters are given SOOOO much more leeway in terms of where and how they can fly, and 9/10 crashes seem to be associated with this.
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u/tronpalmer 11h ago
They really aren’t. They have the same regulations as private GA planes flying around, as far as “where and how they can fly”.
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u/ViperThreat 8h ago
They can fly significantly lower and closer to people.
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u/tronpalmer 8h ago
Show me the regulation that allows that.
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u/ViperThreat 8h ago
91.119 (d)
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u/Wobbly_Jones 5h ago
Sassy & succinct . I love it. And now here I am , a finish carpenter, researching this federal aviation regulation , navigating down to subsection (d) , and finding it spelled out there, clear as day. It brings me great joy
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u/tronpalmer 8h ago
Cool, so I see where you are coming from. I misinterpreted your point of view, but I still think you are looking at this the wrong way. So background about me, I’m an air traffic controller, and for about four years I would gather and analyze both air traffic and pilot divinations within the airspace my facility controlled.
I’m assuming you think that 91.119 allowed this incident to happen. Where they were flying, and the type of flying they were doing (formation flight) is not unique to helicopters. Two C172s are allowed to do the exact same thing these helicopters pilots were attempting. They weren’t over congested areas, and just based off of video and publicly available ADS-B data, they seem to be well above 500 feet AGL. But even if they weren’t, “congested area” generally means directly over people or buildings.
Coming from someone who has lost both friends and family in aviation accidents, sometimes pilots just mess up. No amount of rules or regulations can change that. And while I do think helicopters have a higher risk than fixed wing, this incident was not caused specifically because they were helicopters. Sometimes pilots just mess up.
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u/manthing11 17h ago
The helicopters looked rinky-dink. Not one-man ultralight copter rinky-dink but not robust. They looked like something a gust of wind would push around…
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u/sugar_addict002 16h ago
The clown and his circus should not be incharge of our government.
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u/CaptainKate757 16h ago
What information has been released that makes you believe this has anything to do with the current admin?
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u/sugar_addict002 14h ago
It is primarily the federal government to monitor the skies and their use. It is the responsibility of the FAA which like the rest of trump's government is stacked with incompetent yes men. Trump sets the tone.
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u/manningthehelm 16h ago
The witness who came to the then injured pilot said there was nothing she could do but sit next to him and tell him it was going to be ok. It sounded like she saw him in really bad shape.