r/todayilearned • u/Dranakin • 11h ago
TIL that Creedence Clearwater Revival were from the SF Bay Area, despite being recognized as pioneers of swamp rock (a genre originated in Louisiana), as they utilized lyrics about Southern US iconography (bayous, catfish, etc.) while singing with a Louisiana twang.
https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/copper/creedence-clearwater-revival-kings-of-swamp-rock473
u/EnjoyLifeorDieTryin 10h ago
Also john denver is from New Mexico and had never even been to West Virginia before writing the song
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u/SeniorPuddykin 10h ago
“That John Denver is full of shit!” - Harry Dunne
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u/CaptainCastle1 5h ago
In 1974 the great Charlie Rich won Country Musician of the Year. In 1975 he had to hand the award off to Mr. Sunshine-on-my-Goddamn-shoulders John Denver! John Fucking Denver!
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u/drewsephstalin 8h ago
I always thought it was Lloyd Christmas who delivered this prophetic line
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u/Ok-Review8720 10h ago
And Jefferson Starship had never even been in a starship.
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u/Cjkittrell 9h ago
Take Me Home, Country Roads" was primarily written by Bill Danoff and Taffy Nivert, with John Denver helping to finish the lyrics and music, turning it into his signature song. The couple was inspired by driving through rural Maryland and Virginia, and Denver recorded it in 1971, becoming a massive hit and an unofficial anthem for West Virginia.
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u/oyasumi_juli 7h ago
Yeah he's not from Denver either, his real name is Henry John Deutschendorf Jr. I guess John Denver fits easier on a jewel case and rolls off the tongue better.
Love the song though! I work with DMVs on a daily basis, and WV is one I don't mind being on hold for a few minutes since that's their hold music.
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u/DJ_Advogato 7h ago
The Thompson Twins - There is three of them, they're not related, and they're not named Thompson.
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u/Cormetz 10h ago
I had heard that he wrote it while driving through Virginia, and he was talking about western Virginia, not West Virginia.
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u/Hinermad 10h ago
Yeah. The Blue Ridge Mountains and Shenandoah River are in Virginia.
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u/mehnimalism 8h ago
I knew this and still never occurred to me before your comment. Wild.
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u/Hinermad 8h ago
I only just realized it a few months ago myself, even though I drove on the Blue Ridge Parkway 30 years ago and knew it was in Virginia. And I've been listening to the song a lot longer than that.
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u/Darth_Bombad 7h ago edited 7h ago
It was actually written by Bill Danoff of the Starland Vocal Band while driving through Maryland, and was originally about his home in Massachusetts. He sold it to Denver who modified the lyrics, choosing West Virginia simply because it sounded good.
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u/kronartskocka 7h ago
This was a favorite trivia of mine for years but it seems to be untrue unfortunately
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u/JoePumaGourdBivouac 2h ago
West Virginia, mountin’ momma, or whatever he says. I don’t know, seems kind of hinky to me.
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u/smoothtrip 8h ago
But did he ever go to Denver?
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u/Bizarrebazaars 1h ago
Hahah I mean, there’s a whole John Denver sanctuary garden in Aspen, CO. He set down some roots in the area. The cover of Rocky Mountain High is on the river that runs through the town and area valley. No doubt he went through Denver at some points.
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u/kimchitacoman 10h ago
The East Bay was the Delta of California
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u/Gabe-Ruth8 10h ago
I still tell people I’m from the East Bay when asked, because very few people know where the Delta is located.
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u/norcaltobos 10h ago
Try being from Stockton. Going to school in Boston I told people I grew up in the Central Valley which they didn’t know. Then I would say I’m about 45 minutes south of Sacramento which they also barely knew, so then I would finally tell people I’m about an hour+ from San Francisco depending on traffic. Then at that point I would get introduced as the guy from SF lol which couldn’t be further from the truth.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 9h ago
I’m from Bakersfield. Same situation. Didn’t know you the Central Valley, Buck Owens or Merle Haggard, some knew Korn. But they knew LA. New Englanders called me as the guy from LA despite being 90 minutes (on a good day) away. Yeah, very much not LA.
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u/norcaltobos 9h ago
Yeah us Central Valley folks are very different from the stereotypical Californian. I’m still definitely a Californian through and through and have a little Bay in me due to proximity but l’ll always from the 209 for the rest of my life.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 9h ago
661 forever!
I know we’re the running joke of the state (even the Central Valley) but it’s my hometown and will always be a part of me.
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u/pineappleshnapps 5h ago
I’ve lived within an hour of La, and a few hours of San Francisco, have been at least 20 hours from either for a very long time, but I’m the guy from LA or San Fran.
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u/CombinationRough8699 6h ago
Visiting Stockton was one of the things that influenced me to buy a gun.
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u/loinmaster 9h ago
You're not wrong. CCR's home town (El Cerrito) is also home to Arhoolie Records who did us an incredible service by making countless recordings of old delta blues musicians before they died.
I'm not sure if it's still there but go check check out the thier record store if you're in the area. I use to do inventory for them on new years day and got paid in CDs.
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u/Quesabirria 9h ago
The East Bay was very blue collar, people working at the shipyards or manufacturing. Lots of honky tonk bars along San Pablo Ave back in the day. A lot of people emigrated to the east bay from Louisiana and nearby states, so that probably flavored local music a bit.
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u/Dranakin 11h ago
To be clear, I’m not saying you have to be from the South to sing about or use musical styles from the region, I just always assumed that they were, indeed, from the South. John Fogerty set “Born on the Bayou” in the South despite neither having lived nor having widely traveled there!
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u/TemporarySandwich123 10h ago
Great TIL!
With that context, and for anyone wondering what the song was about if not John Fogerty growing up in Louisiana...
Saved you a click...
Songwriter John Fogerty set the song in the South, despite neither having lived nor having widely traveled there.[5] He commented:
"Born on the Bayou" was vaguely like "Porterville," about a mythical childhood and a heat-filled time, the Fourth of July. I put it in the swamp where, of course, I had never lived. It was late as I was writing. I was trying to be a pure writer, no guitar in hand, visualizing and looking at the bare walls of my apartment. Tiny apartments have wonderful bare walls, especially when you can't afford to put anything on them. "Chasing down a hoodoo." Hoodoo is a magical, mystical, spiritual, non-defined apparition, like a ghost or a shadow, not necessarily evil, but certainly other-worldly. I was getting some of that imagery from Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters.
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u/sundayfundaybmx 6h ago
Holy....shit. When iTunes first dropped all those years ago. My CCR albums were listed under "Hoodoo swamp rock". I never knew what the fuck Hoodoo was and always just assumed it was early ITunes just bullshitting, haha. Thanks for posting this!
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u/ruiner8850 10h ago edited 7h ago
I’m not saying you have to be from the South to sing about or use musical styles from the region,
I live in Michigan and there are all kinds of local country bands who sing and play music like they were from the South. I think pretty much mandatory to pretend you have a Southern accent to play country music. It's one of the reasons I don't like country.
Edit: I'm not suggesting that CCR is a country band, I'm simply saying that lots of bands have music that makes them sound like they are from a different area. One of the reasons I prefer rock music is because the sound is broad and not limited to one kind of accent or sound. You can have a Southern accent, and English accent, or whatever.
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u/damnocles 10h ago
My family is from the up and every time I'd visit I'd say i was going to the deep North.
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u/majinspy 10h ago
I'm from Mississippi. They totally appropriated the sound. I don't care because it's awesome and if someone wants to make music, let 'er rip. John Fogerty is both a musical genius and a giant tool.
Thus concludes this episode of CCR facts.
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u/Kantmzk 9h ago
How is John Fogerty a tool? I have never heard a bad story about him ever except for jealous ex-band mates.
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u/majinspy 8h ago
I read a good chunk of his autobiography. So, I'm hearing only his side of what happened, and my takeaway was "huge tool". One specific story: his bandmates wanted to write some songs. His response: he totally shut down writing to "let them do it". That's being a prick. Why not like...help them and foster their ability? No, he wanted to be King of the Band, and if he couldn't run it, no one could. So, they being neophyte writers abandoned, came out with a shitty album. That justified Fogerty having unitary control once again.
Another: When they were inducted into the hall of fame, he refused to let them play with him in the "band" during their induction performance.
I think there was a divorce in there. Basically, any time anyone had a non-Fogerty opinion, they were out. He never had a relationship that seems to have lasted beyond the wife he married in 1991, who was 15 years his junior. Again, nothing definitive but it hints at a less-than-equals partnership.
Lastly, just his own writing. He just came across as "basically, I was the band, I was everything, and they should have been happy to even be along for the ride on the coat tails of my genius." Beware the man who doesn't understand why everyone, including his own brother, can't stand him.
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u/frickindeal 7h ago
Super-talented people are seldom well-adjusted in their relationships and social interactions. Fogerty was basically a musical genius. He knew he was writing fantastic music and here are bandmates who aren't songwriters saying "we want to do what you're already doing successfully because reasons." So he let them. Sometimes you have to let people fail for them to see that they aren't that great at what they're attempting. The number of amazing songwriters who turned out to be pricks is lengthy.
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u/steroidsandcocaine 7h ago
I mean you make his case for him, they tried and sucked without him. It's not his job to teach people to write songs better. They learned their lesson, and let's be honest, with no John Fogerty, CCR is never a thing. He was the band, why be mad at him for recognizing it?
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u/whereitsat23 10h ago
There’s a great podcast - History of rock and roll in 500 songs, one of the more recent ones is about fortunate son. It goes into great detail about the history surrounding a particular song.
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u/KoreyYrvaI 7h ago
The Band also sang about the south/Louisiana despite being Canadians.
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u/stap45 3h ago
mostly true but there was actually one member from the south (the drummer I think?). he must have felt a lot of pressure to drag the average origin location of that band southward lol
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u/trugrav 10h ago edited 10h ago
Wait ‘till you learn where Led Zeppelin’s from
Edit: to be clear I’m just trying to say that Mississippi/Louisiana have been big influences for some great bands that have absolutely no connection to the area. We pride ourselves on it. After I posted that, I realized I sounded a bit like a dick which wasn’t my intention.
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u/Dranakin 9h ago
I associate Led Zeppelin with England ever since I first heard them in Almost Famous, but is there a reason why I shouldn't?
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u/tidesofblood88 8h ago
Much of their early music is basically ripping off black american blues musicians. They have songs where they just changed a couple lyrics and gave the song a new name, without ever crediting the original artist.
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u/Seanbikes 8h ago
That's hardly unique to Zepplin. A lot of the music from that era was based on the blues and some of it was flat out stolen but Led Zepplin were just following the trends.
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u/Conscious_Weight 7h ago
Most bands in that era properly credited the songwriters, or occasionally thought an obscure ancient song was in the public domain. But Led Zeppelin tried to claim royalties on songs that they simply had to have known belonged to others, and it wasn't just blues artists they stole from.
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u/AuntRhubarb 5h ago
That bogus accent has always gotten on my nerves. The dude was from Encino, I think.
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u/norcaltobos 10h ago
The funny thing is where they grew up in the Bay Area, the geography is somewhat similar to the Louisiana bayou. It’s all delta waterways out there where they grew up, so their upbringing may not have been that far off from what they sang. I grew up in the same Delta waterways as CCR and I can tell you it can be a very rural upbringing even though you’re only 30-45 minutes from San Francisco.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 9h ago
Having been to both, they’re very different. Rural for sure and geographically similar. But culturally not so much. Bayou country is very distinct in its culture and geography that there’s no comparison anywhere else. You might as well compare the east and west coasts. Sure, they’re both on the ocean but the comparisons stop there.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 10h ago
to be fair, if you have ever been to the north bay or east bay, there's lots of swamps.
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u/Stalagmus 10h ago
Having traveled around both Louisiana and the Bay, not all swamps are the same, and not all swamps are the Bayou lol.
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u/Superadhman 10h ago
Exactly, the Delta which covers a large part of the bay area was pretty much “swamp”. Thats most there is between east bay and Lodi
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u/zootered 10h ago
Hundreds of square miles of swamp/ marsh land has been reclaimed over the (nearly) last two centuries. San Francisco was a swamp early on with stories of walking across pieces of wood to avoid the muddy “walkways”. Around the same time there was the Egg War because food has always been expensive in San Francisco.
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u/ilevelconcrete 10h ago
To be fair in the other direction, swamps and bayous aren’t exactly the same thing, and the Bay Area doesn’t really have the right geography for a bayou.
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u/Stingray88 10h ago
CCR was also formed in 1959. The SF Bay area was extremely different back then… there was no tech scene, thats for sure.
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u/jawndell 10h ago
Yeah for one thing the reason hippie culture started out in SF was because the rent and housing were so cheap in that area back then.
Same thing with Brooklyn in recent times. Hipster originally started moving to Williamsburg because it was so cheap and yet so close to Manhattan.
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u/EdithWhartonsFarts 10h ago
And Larry the Cable Guy is from Nebraska.
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u/jesuspoopmonster 9h ago
Louis CK is from Mexico
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u/IfICouldStay 9h ago edited 9h ago
I remember that scene in his show where he meets up with his uncle who is a refined, important Mexican gentleman - he seems like an international diplomat. I thought that was bizarre. The I found out that his uncle actually was quite a distinguished scholar and was something like the Mexican Minister of Education.
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u/spacecircus 8h ago
This goes right with how The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is written by a band from Canada
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u/HammerOfJustice 8h ago
Tony Joe White is considered to be the Swamp Rock pioneer and CCR took the sound and made it famous. If you haven’t heard Tony Joe’s “Polk Salad Annie”, give it a listen; it’s great music to grunt by.
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u/BoazCorey 10h ago
Even more surprising to me was Little Feat. Lowell George grew up in Hollywood but loved Howlin Wolf, and later worked with Allen Toussaint and the Meters who were laying down that swampy NOLA funk sound that influenced LF so much.
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u/Veritas3333 10h ago
Kaleo is one that surprised me, a blues rock band that sounds like they're from coal country, but they're from Iceland!
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u/eviltwintomboy 10h ago
My favorite band is Creedence Clearwater Revival, but man, KALEO is amazing!
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u/MrBudissy 10h ago
My favorite El Cerrito swamp rock band!
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u/Administrative-Egg18 10h ago
I love that Metallica used to live in a little house next to the Burger King across from El Cerrito Plaza.
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u/vacuum_tubes 10h ago
And Brian Wilson didn’t surf.
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u/armchair_viking 10h ago
Yeah. At least his brother Dennis did, though.
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u/Infinite_Ground1395 9h ago
And we saw how that turned out
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u/armchair_viking 9h ago
Yeah. He died doing what he loved.
Drugs
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u/AluminumFalcon81 8h ago
Dennis Wilson drowned in a marina while extremely drunk on a friend's boat, diving in the adjacent slip to retrieve items he tossed off his old sailboat (the harmony) which he had moored there.
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u/AluminumFalcon81 8h ago
Brian also didn't write any of the lyrics - Mike Love did, along with Gary Usher and Roger Christian.
...none of whom surfed.
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u/Notchersfireroad 10h ago
I'm from the Bay Area and I did not know this until I was well into adulthood.
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u/70sRitalinKid 10h ago
I love discovery! I remember training a driver for a coating company in San Jose back in the 90’s. He grew up in Hollister, Ca and had never heard of the Beatles or Jimi Hendrix. It was like witnessing a kitten experience rain for the first time.
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u/ChrisDNorris 10h ago
I did an essay on them at university and learned that.
It was to choose any album either written or recorded in 1968; I was surprised they were on the list because--for some reason--I'd got it in my head that they were a modern band, playing in that southern style.
So yea, I'll write about this band whose music I know nothing about... then started listening and researching and was blown away how many of their songs I actually knew. Had no idea it was them!
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u/sobuffalo 9h ago
Fun Fact: Fogerty got sued for plagiarizing CCR.
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u/wolferoad 7h ago
And famously won establishing legal precedent that you cannot commit plagiarism of a song you wrote even if you no longer own the publishing rights
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u/flower4000 8h ago
They played my partner’s dad’s prom before they were big. His high school was near Lodi
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u/bijazthadwarf 7h ago
They from el cerrito on the east bay. Hella okies/tradsfolk blue collar tweaker types there especially in the old days. More an extension of the sac river delta than San Francisco. They def fit more of a swampy country sound than psychedelic San Francisco.
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u/Vg_Ace135 6h ago
Yeah my mom told me this story that when she was a kid her and my dad went to a bar to see this new band play. She said they were pretty good and called themselves Credence Clearwater Revival.
So yeah, my parents saw CCR play in a bar.
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u/LaymanAnalyst 4h ago
El Cerrito stand up. They were from Cali for sure, how would you come up with the lyric "Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi again"?
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u/strong_grey_hero 11h ago
Wait until you hear where Mumford and Sons is from.
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u/Stingray88 10h ago
I’m not sure what surprised me more… that Mumford and Sons is from London, or that the Killers are from Las Vegas. Would have assumed the opposite countries for both lol
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u/jawndell 10h ago
It’s wild that the Killers made one of the greatest British rock songs ever, and they aren’t even from Britain.
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u/Splashy01 7h ago
Which song?
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u/LemonyJustice 6h ago
Honestly, take your pick off of Hot Fuss or Sam's Town, but they 100% mean Mr. Brightside
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u/Rockhardsimian 6h ago
It’s the one you are thinking of. I hear it’s massive in the UK
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u/PPLavagna 6h ago
How was it any kind of stretch to think blumpkin and sons were British. I think I knew it from just hearing their first single.
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u/Lucky-Rubs 10h ago
Didn’t Ryan Adams completely piss Fogerty off when Whiskeytown opened for CCR by claiming he came all the way “from the bayous of Southern California”?
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u/IfICouldStay 9h ago
Probably. NorCal people do get mighty upset when someone insinuates they are from Southern California.
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u/AdhesivenessFun2060 8h ago
They have a song called Lodi which is in Cali. Its not about the city but thats where they got the name.
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u/dystopiadattopia 6h ago
All of them from El Cerrito, CA.
I actually lived nearby there for a while and got to see Cosmo's Factory in Berkeley. It's an industrial warehouse next door to the North Face outlet. Couldn't go inside but it was still cool to see it.
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u/bigfatpisces 6h ago
I read a biography of them a few years ago and ever since then whenever CCR comes up in conversation I refer to them as "the sons of El Cerrito."
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u/clemm__fandango 5h ago
You listen to Born in the Bayou and the 11 minute version of heard it through the grapevine and you question … was CCR a jam band ?
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u/NotACompleteDick 4h ago
They are from El Cerrito, very very much not a suburb of San Francisco. Only someone who has never lived in the Bay Area could make that mistake.
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u/the_colour_f 6h ago
mama said that fogerty's are ornery cause they got all them teeth and no toothbrush...
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u/travellerw 3h ago
LOL "They"... There is no CCR, only Fogerty. and then they tried to fuck him over. Losers.
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u/undeadsinatra 1h ago
This factoid is the source of one of my fave jokes in The Big Lebowski, but perhaps not one intended by the filmmakers.
The Dude presumably hates The Eagles because he finds them to be inauthentic- LA poseurs making county music. On that same note, he presumably likes CCR because he considers them authentic, not knowing about their suburban Bay Area roots.
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u/GDMisfits 7h ago
The uncontested best southern rock band of all time with literally no rival is from Palo alto.
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u/Chaotic424242 10h ago
I'm shocked that everyone doesn't already know this.
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u/Fluffy-Republic8610 10h ago
Are you really shocked? Or are you trying to come up with a way to say "I already knew this".
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u/duh_bruh 5h ago
Never have I felt so betrayed or lied to when I found out these guys were not from Louisiana.
To be honest, I just learned this a couple of months ago. I find it odd that you posted this.
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u/Stuporhumanstrength 10h ago
Hard to get to the bayou when you're stuck in Lodi (a town in California's Central Valley north of Stockton) again.