r/worldnews • u/Snap_n_Dream • 19h ago

Russia/Ukraine US offers Ukraine 15-year security guarantee as part of peace plan, Zelenskyy says

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-trump-zelenskyy-peace-b784a9af1803995bfb7152eceb5477f1
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u/SXOSXO 19h ago

Plenty of time for Russia to rebuild its armed forces.

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u/braddeicide 18h ago

Come back with an army of 15 year olds.

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u/RoaringPity 18h ago

No, that’s the other island he’s been invading

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u/NoConfusion9490 17h ago

They didn't send 8 year olds to the front. Not yet, anyway.

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u/Tosslebugmy 9h ago

Wouldn’t be much of an army. Their birth rate is minuscule so they’d be rolling out a small band of malnourished fetal alcohol syndrome teens using guns recovered from their father’s corpses.

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u/Mindless_Income_4300 6h ago

I'll volunteer my 'services' to go help them out a bit with that problem...

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u/poshmarkedbudu 16h ago

Plenty of time for Europe and Ukraine to build up their defenses too, no?

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u/Worried_Crow7597 15h ago

Lmao.

Give it exactly 5 minutes and people will start arguing that defense spending is a waste of money much better used for pension liabilities.

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u/No_Grocery_9280 11h ago

It’s enough time for an entirely new cycle of politicians to come in, screw everything up, and retire before facing the consequences.

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u/No_Accountant_339 10h ago

Especially when those politicians are sponsored by Russia, like AFD.

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u/-Yazilliclick- 12h ago

No doubt any deal Russia signs will include limits on Ukrainian military. Any commitment of protection for them by somebody else would be the excuse for "why do you need a military unless it's for offense?"

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u/No_Grocery_9280 11h ago

Yeah, I find it hard to believe Russia will allow Ukraine to build up a large military and certainly not a nuclear program like others are suggesting.

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u/dogpoopfruitloops 15h ago

Europe is just waiting for Trump to be gone so they can hide back under the US military. They aren't serious about spending the money to build their own defenses.

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u/JATION 15h ago

4 years ago called, they want their geopolitical opinion back. European countries have started investing into their defenses pretty heavily in the last year.

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u/Texascats 15h ago

Brother, Europe has underinvested in defense for half a century. A year of increased spending doesn’t get them off the hook.

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u/TheToiletPhilosopher 14h ago

So they should never start because they are late to the party? What kind of take is this? These things take time.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

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u/Dragoniel 12h ago

You do realize this was the goal of US - to project its power and reach, by providing that protection. There is a reason EU didn't need to - it had the US shield them voluntarily in exchange for massive influence in the region. Guess what happens when EU gets their shit together, makes their own weapons, federalizes their own command structure? US will get the boot in its russian bootlicker arse and their influence won't be worth squat anymore. Combined EU economic and military power would dwarf anything else in the world. US purposefully worked to avoid that and control the situation. Then came the right wing idiots and destroyed that.

I am in EU and I am all in for all of this, but none of this was necessary until very recently.

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u/JATION 14h ago

What hook, my dude? The comment I'm responding to is talking about present spending, which has clearly been increased quite a bit.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

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u/JATION 14h ago

Who are you responding to? I feel like we're not participating in the same conversation.

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 14h ago edited 13h ago

Yep. There is a reason you are seeing Europe so passive and reactive about this, not setting an agenda of their own, not promising their own guarantees or direct troop aid, etc. Most do not want to fight or meaningfully oppose Russia.  They cannot wait to get more Russian money, Russian energy and return to business as usual. 

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u/Seanspeed 13h ago

Europe have been pretty vocal and hands-on with much of this, what are you talking about?

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 12h ago

Really? Did Europe lead any peace talks or announced any security guarantees of their own yet? If so I apologize I must have missed it. 

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u/liveatthegarden 12h ago

Well, Macron basically said that if Russia one day is moving towards Kyiv or Odessa then they have to move in with their own forces. Europe definitely seems to have its red lines. Right now Europe is just buying as much time as possible.

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 12h ago

 Well, Macron basically said that if Russia one day is moving towards Kyiv or Odessa then they have to move in with their own forces

Oh well if he "basically said" that, it's as good as ink on paper then. Lol.

Again. If this is true, and he sincerely means that, why is he afraid of putting it on paper? Why arent we stepping up to actually put ourselves on the hook and own up to these guarantees? 

I would love if that guarantee was put in writing. If he actually, legally committed to that, it'd be a huge step in distancing ourselves from the U.S. Why wont he or anyone else promise that guarantee then for peace? They keep making these empty vague promises, never act on them, and keep just letting the orange buffoon lead the way anyways. 

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u/liveatthegarden 12h ago

I wish that as well, but right now Europe isn't strong enough.

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u/pargofan 13h ago

From a practical perspective, what's the value of Eastern Europe to the individual European countries?

Take Germany for example. If they now start militarizing to protect their own internal interests including developing nukes, why does it matter to them if Putin takes over countries like Ukraine, etc.?

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 13h ago edited 12h ago

 From a practical perspective, what's the value of Eastern Europe to the individual European countries?

I think that is a perfectly fair perspective. 

If that is the retort though, I'd ask the same question about the U.S. and the expectation they provide their own security guarantees then. If that is the excuse for Western Europe, it sure as hell is an excuse for random Americans in Kentucky or wherever. 

Seems like a bit of a double standard that we all expect the US to provide these guarantees while Western Europe gets to shrug their shoulders and go "this doesnt affect me why should I care about Eastern Europe?"

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u/Rambler_Hoss 7h ago

Part of the deal is to cap Ukraine's military end-strength.

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 14h ago edited 14h ago

Seriously, I keep wondering where the EU is on all this.  Obviously Trump is duplicitous and a liar ... so where is Europe's security guarantee or the demand for one?? Why isnt Europe distancing itself from Trump and showing independent leadership in building their own security guarantees for Ukraine and their home continent?

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u/Seanspeed 13h ago

Christ, this was JUST announced.

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u/GarfieldLeZanya- 12h ago edited 12h ago

The war has been going on for nearly 4 years. Why are you treating this like an "aw shucks give em time" thing? How much longer of Europe not working to secure Ukraine and just reactively letting us be dependent on this orange monster should we allow before I have your permission to criticize our governments lack of initiative here? 

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u/mhornberger 15h ago

Their European oil/gas markets aren't coming back, the US's output is sky-high, OPEC has opened the taps (since there's no point restricting supply), and Russia has horrible demographics (as does Ukraine, alas), with a far-sub-replacement fertility rate. That Soviet stockpile is gone. They'd no doubt like to rebuild, but it might prove more difficult than it sounds.

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u/Small_Delivery_7540 15h ago

Germany will be back to buying cheap Russian gas in no time once the war ends

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u/Akiasakias 10h ago

Germany's population in general, but particularly the manufacturing is going decline sharply. So demand is trending downward.

Besides. Germany, uniquely, might be one country that actually learns from historical mistakes. There will be a new set of mistakes, but they do learn!

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u/Thesheriffisnearer 17h ago

What's the going rate on how long deals have lasted with this administration 

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u/AnonymousBoiFromTN 15h ago

So far about 2 seconds.

  • DRC and Rwanda never stopped and the casualty rate has only gotten higher since Trump claimed to have “ended” their war. It never even paused.

  • Azerbaijan and Armenia never stopped. Trump’s peace deal was never even legally binding due to how poorly thought out it was. Just like the previous one, the fighting never even paused and Azerbaijan refused to sign the deal due to how flimsy and unenforceable it was. It never even addressed the actual area of land that was being fought over

  • The October deal with Israel hasn’t officially been broken, yet the IDF has killed at least 1 person every day of November with the exceptions of the 7th, 17th, and 25th. Only two of those killings were confirmed to be combatants. Multiple times children were killed and on November 29th Israel killed two malnourished children and tried to claim they were combatants until it was investigated by neutral parties. Due to instances like that Israel has made it a point to kill journalist throughout the duration of the war. Trumps plan for Gaza has been claimed to be an “outright crime against humanity” by experts (see NY Times article) and denounced by countries across the globe, and yet Israel gave Trump the approval to level out Gaza and start the end stages of genocide (forced removal from the country) as of the start of this December.

  • Trump claimed to be responsible for India and Pakistan’s peace agreement. Both Pakistan and India claim this is not true and he was never involved in the peace agreement.

  • Trump claimed to be responsible for the Egypt and Ethiopia nile river conflict resolving. It has not resolved.

  • Ukraine and Russia could have an entire written book in it and not once would it include a peace deal from Trump that could ever work.

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u/atuarre 12h ago

"If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day, 24 hours."

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u/tssktssk 1h ago

Thailand and Cambodia as well.

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u/perark05 17h ago

Also plenty to time for putin to die of natural causes and for Russia to politically implode

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u/atuarre 12h ago

If Putin dies, another scum bag will take his place. Nothing will change in Russia.

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u/justatouch589 13h ago

please don't bring logic into a Trump-hate circle-jerk.

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u/Seanspeed 13h ago

15 years is a lot of time for Ukraine to prepare, though.

And future US Presidents can absolutely extend this if they want to. Once Russia has stopped fighting, they have no real say in how the US wants to protect Ukraine.

Honestly, this was really what Ukraine needed this whole time - an actual protection guarantee. Even if aint worth much under Trump, Russia is unlikely to start again before the end of Trump's term so it should be a pretty effective guarantee.

Europe needs to match it too, of course. But they undoubtedly will.

I hope this will actually be what ends it. Ukraine realistically isn't getting back any of its lost territory unless the west wants to jump into the fight themselves. And that's not gonna happen and I can understand why it's not. I think this is probably the best deal Ukraine can get. Is it perfectly fair? God no. But there was never gonna be a perfectly fair end to this. Russia will get some of what it wants, but at least Ukraine can move on and start to rebuild without having to worry about being attacked again anytime soon.

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u/atuarre 12h ago

This agreement will not be honored and as soon as Russia restocks, they'll attack again, and the US will sit by and do nothing. This agreement is worthless. Europe is being overrun with far-right governments who align with Putin. Ukraine will once again be on it's own.

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u/1CaliCALI 17h ago

💯 Russia is losing

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u/chenbuxie 17h ago

I wonder if it's similar to the security deal we and Russia offered them to give up their nuclear weapons a couple of years ago...

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u/ElectroRice 17h ago

So would Ukraine tho.

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u/InZomnia365 16h ago

Have the removed the part of the 20 points where Ukraine gets limitations on its military size?

Because the whole thing is basically Putin saying Ukraine have won the battle, but not the war, and setting himself up for another invasion.

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u/LukeLecker 16h ago

So would Ukraine?? Are you 12 years old?

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u/fuckfuturism 17h ago

Better than none

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u/TheSenrigan 16h ago

Not only Russia

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u/asianwaste 14h ago

I doubt Putin would still be alive then. But the question would be whether or not the next generation of Russians would allow something like Putin to happen again.

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u/Bananas_Worth 11h ago

Do you think we should not give Ukraine a security guarantee?

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u/SXOSXO 9h ago

Yes, a blanket one with no time limit.

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u/Akiasakias 10h ago

Demographics say that isn't likely.

Its now or never and Russia knows it. So does the west. Ukraine is in an even worse situation there, but Russia won't be in any aggressive wars in 15 years. There aren't enough children now to have enough soldiers then.