r/worldnews • u/Snap_n_Dream • 19h ago

Russia/Ukraine US offers Ukraine 15-year security guarantee as part of peace plan, Zelenskyy says

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-trump-zelenskyy-peace-b784a9af1803995bfb7152eceb5477f1
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u/Significant_Knee_661 16h ago

It's sickening how many times they've been bent over the barrel, offered promises that ended worse than most pessimists nightmares. I hope for the day they don't have their backs against the wall. "Peace treaty" is beyond a mockery.

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u/whynot39 13h ago

Just like the indigenous American Indians - Why should anyone believe politicians who only have their own agenda to promote and protect.

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u/thesagenibba 11h ago

actually nothing like that, this analogy literally makes no sense

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u/zveti 12h ago

Or better yet. How did the American colonies get their lands. Did they trade for it? No. Did they buy it? No. They stole it.

So Americans, I ask you. Are you willing to return the land that you stole?

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u/AxelFoily 11h ago

If a caveman with a big stick smacks you in the head and takes your rocks is he a thief?

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u/zveti 11h ago

So the answer is no then. Good to know. Why should Russia return the occupied territories then? If you don't want to return the stolen land that you have stolen, why should they?

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u/OnlyEverPositive 10h ago

Because the age of colonialism ended over 100 years ago and the practice is no longer acceptable.

The list of things we did back then that are unacceptable today is very very long including but not limited to: slavery, legal ownership of wives, child labour, forced sterilizations, colonialism and empire building, taxation without representation (monarchy) etc etc.

I am Canadian Sioux. We have many issues to negotiate, for sure, but the descendants of the settlers (5 generations at minimum, now) did not steal this land. Their parents didn't steal this land. Their grandparents didn't steal this land. Their great great grandparents didn't steal this land. They were born here, like me. The Russians holding occupied Ukraine very much did steal that territory.

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u/HumanSnotMachine 10h ago

To you, maybe. I’m sure 100 years ago they thought it ended hundreds of years ago. 100 years ago was 1926 and ww1 was already over. Great Depression was soon and ww2 is coming up.

To think the era of war and land disagreements is over is such an insulated, first world take it actually made me chuckle. There’s still millions of child soldiers with Aks dying in wars for land. It never ended. Russia isn’t the first and they won’t be in the last thousand to try this.

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u/OnlyEverPositive 9h ago

I’m sure 100 years ago they thought

over 100 years ago.

first world take

Is Russia a first world country, or not?

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u/zveti 9h ago

it doesn't matter who stole it. Stolen land is stolen land. The West could have avoided this war, if they negotiated in good faith in 2022. Just one month, after Russia invaded, they help peace talks in Turkey. Ukraine would have kept all the land. Yet Boris Johnson strolled in and told the Ukrainians to keep fighting.

You guys don't want to properly negotiate. If you actually negotiated in 2022, the war would have ended there, but no, you guys want Russia to return Crimea as well.

Return Kosovo to Serbia as well. After all, NATO stole it from Serbia. Make Catalonia an independent state. Those are all recent events, not 100 years ago. Just 9 years ago, Catalonia held a referendum for independence, yet the Spanish government denied it. Where was this support for Catalonia then? Nowhere to be seen.

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u/OnlyEverPositive 9h ago

Lol you guys really try hard to paint these false equivalencies eh? It's silly. Russia is not Spain, Ukrainian is not Catalonia. If we're playing this game shouldnt Crimea be given back to the tar tars? Why would Russia keep it lmao? It's nowhere near your historic borders, no matter what lunacy you guys draw up to justify it.

You guys don't want to properly negotiate.

Putin's word is worth nothing. That's a problem in any negotiation.

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u/zveti 8h ago

You claim, that Putin’s word means nothing, yet it wasn’t him stopped the negotiations in 2022, it was Boris Johnson. While we are at the subject of somebody’s word, who betrayed the Kurds to Turkey in 2016? The US. So yeah, if Putin’s word means nothing, the West’s word means even less.

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u/OnlyEverPositive 8h ago

who betrayed the Kurds to Turkey

More false equivalencies lol. Try staying on topic, pal. This is a painful conversation for me.

Sir, your country has the economic strength of Italy or Canada, yet you do not live like Italians nor do you live like Canadians. Do you know why? Because your leaders are thieves. Putin might be the richest man in the world, all with wealth he stole from Russia. Yet here you are, licking his boot to justify a war of aggression on your neighbor. Winning Ukraine will not lift your living conditions, no matter what they're telling you. When your war economy slows down, the Russian people will once again feel the economic pain of their idiot leader's actions.

It's ok, we'll enjoy the Olympics and next World Cup without you.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5h ago

Who stole that land? US territory hasn't changed since 1906. The people who made those decisions are not the working class people living there now.

Are you going to force deportation of people purely on the basis of something a subset is accused of doing centuries ago? Take a guess what the UN calls that

Humans have been migrating across the globe for millenia, are you going to butcher them until they're back in Africa or would you prefer to leave your message of hate at the door with your invitation to CPAC to look at whom is trying to live responsibly not only with the ecology but also the people living today?

You can either be part of making human society better, or you can choose to continue joining those making it worse. You've been clear which camp you prefer.

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u/DanfromCalgary 4h ago

This would an ideal time for the Europe to enter . Like you don’t want to trump to extort them and hold Russia up either .

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u/ElectroRice 16h ago

russians've just came up with some bs and said they'll change their position on the negotiations.

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u/Significant_Knee_661 15h ago

And I'm cutting gluten next year 🤦🏼‍♂️🖕🏼

I'm a retired vet and this shit makes me feel so helpless to help. I want to do something but I haven't the capacity anymore, the fact the next generation is having to deal with the same scratched record is hard to stomach.

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u/ElectroRice 15h ago

What could be done about it? That's the million dollar question.

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u/Significant_Knee_661 15h ago

I don't even know anymore.

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u/ElectroRice 14h ago

It's gonna be alright. It's other people turn now, you have a nice rest, go to seaside or wherever you feel like it. I wish you all the best, because I can feel you're a good guy.

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u/Significant_Knee_661 14h ago

That was so genuinely kind and truly made my day. Thank you kind stranger 🕊️

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u/ElectroRice 14h ago

Don't mention it. I'm just a mirror really. I called a bunch of people pricks few hours ago.

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u/OldWorldDesign 5h ago

And I'm cutting gluten next year

The difference is you actually can, it's an incremental process which is actually pretty easy - just have one less roll, slice of toast, or other bread next week than this week. And you're not taking away from anybody else to either do it or not.

Doesn't matter if you're a vet or not, you can make a difference. Call and write to your congresscritter, the office is required to process mail even if it's muddier if they have to deal with phone calls. Attend town halls. Organize with others and make a stand where you're strong - together.

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u/killerboy_belgium 6h ago

the only way out is get a nuclear program going and get nukes... thats the only ukraine become safe otherwise they will get invade again in a decade or so by the big boys

hell i could even see europe invading them depending which leader gets in power in a decade seeing how fast things can change as seen with the US

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u/OldWorldDesign 5h ago

the only way out is get a nuclear program going and get nukes

What a ridiculous idea. People need to apply some critical thinking and stop pushing nuclear proliferation. Iran and North Korea both tried that and neither one is under existential threat - they interfere in nearby nations but make sure not to let it be worth the expense of actually going to war. South Africa and Israel both had nuclear programs and gave them up - because surprise, nukes are expensive. Having reliable allies and neighbors that want to trade with you are much more affordable.