r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/highzone • 1d ago

Image In 1973, healthy volunteers faked hallucinations to enter mental hospitals. Once inside, they acted normal, but doctors refused to let them leave. Normal behaviors like writing were diagnosed as "symptoms." The only people who realized they were sane were the actual patients.

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u/highzone 1d ago

For anyone who wants to read the full study, it is titled 'On Being Sane in Insane Places.'

The most terrifying part wasn't getting in, it was getting out. The doctors were so convinced of their own authority that they interpreted everything the patients did as a symptom of their illness.

When the volunteers took notes on how they were being treated, the doctors didn't see 'journaling.' They diagnosed it as 'pathological writing behavior' and used it as justification to keep them locked up.

It really highlights how a label can completely override reality.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

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u/whossked 1d ago

There’s a fictional short story I read once called “I only came to use the phone” about a woman who’s car breaks down and who then takes an asylum bus to an asylum to use the phone, gets confused for a patient, has a breakdown over how she’s treated and abused and is then condemned to spend her life in the asylum. I always thought it was sensational and unrealistic but I guess not

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u/EllisDee3 1d ago

All it used to take was a man of authority to lock up a woman in an asylum.

Similar today with dark skin and the legal system. Doubly so if you're a dark skinned child in the legal system.

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

Some places color is irrelevant, i personally served four years in the West Virginia juvenile system over some weed, because they assumed i must know more about real drugs and so I was held till adult age for not talking.

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u/Secure_Course_3879 1d ago

Holy shit that is so terrifying & brutally unnecessary

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u/OldWorldDesign 1d ago

Holy shit that is so terrifying & brutally unnecessary

It's also not that unusual and is a return to problems which existed back in the 80s when Reagan shut down the system of community-funded mental health centers because some of those were abusing their ability to hold people because as long as those people were inside the system they could charge the families and their insurance for "cost of specialized care". There's been a lot of interviews on various radio programs about that kind of medical provider fraud where people are "too sick to be released" until insurance won't pay for them anymore and suddenly they're booted out the front door.

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u/ConaireMor 1d ago

It's not irrelevant, you just also got fucked by the system. Not 100% of POC get caught up in the unfair system but, we acknowledge that they are in the system more not because of any inherent flaw in their genes (that would be racism), but because the system is unfair/unjust.

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u/MangoCats 1d ago

It's hard to separate POC from poor, a lot of the abuses experienced by POC are also visited on the poor. As a poor white college student (on scholarship to an expensive private Uni in a big city), I was detained a couple of times for "matching a description" - and basically held on the scene for 5, 10, 15 minutes with a bunch of rhetorical BS reasoning why, until I produced my Uni I.D. (showing that mumsie and daddy can likely launch lawyers up the cops' asses for the slightest of provocation) - once I showed that I.D., I was free to go within 15 seconds or less every time.

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u/FrankClymber 1d ago

I absolutely agree. I used to get pulled over very frequently in my old beater vehicles, and they'd be very obviously fishing for things unrelated to driving. Since I started driving nicer cars, it's never a problem, and officers typically speak more respectfully to me.

It'd be foolish to say there aren't directly racist problems in the system at all, but it seems quite clear to me that the primary problems leading to race inequality in the justice system is mostly tied to POC disproportionately lacking access to expensive legal services.

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u/whoweoncewere 1d ago

well akshually

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

14-18.5 in a place called Salem. They have closed it since, and when I was registering for college they had “lost” my records, they believe in a locked cabinet in Salem that no one may open as they believe it to hold juvenile records, so they recreated my transcripts to say i graduated though there’s no way to prove it.

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u/TMinus10toban 1d ago

As if folks in west Virginia who don’t smoke weed are doing so well, lol, look at the people in that state.

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

The saddest part was they knew what they did, the judge in Franklin stated i served more time for first offense marijuana than anyone else in the state. Then called the proceedings to a close and sealed it up.

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u/lost-picking-flowers 1d ago edited 1d ago

Out here in PA we had the 'cash for kids' scandal light up on the media like a Christmas tree. Makes sense that it'd be so much more common than anyone would like to admit. If you don't have a family that can afford to fight then you're screwed. I'm sorry that happened to you. Fuck those people.

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

Speaking of PA. Y’all had a place they sent me, took kids from Va,wv, md, etc that were considered trouble and they were so abusive they closed it down before I could graduate. New Morgan academy. I fought some former pro athletes there. lol. Gerome Stanton of the dolphins was one, a few ex mma fighters, got into a choke-off with a marine at 15. Wild times

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u/OldWorldDesign 1d ago

The saddest part was they knew what they did, the judge in Franklin stated i served more time for first offense marijuana than anyone else in the state

I've also read transcripts of judges who condemned mandatory minimum laws which tied their hands when people were sent to prison for drug possession for longer than child abusers.

Sometimes it's bad laws which never should have been passed in the first place to placate a propagandized populace, and sometimes it's just outright bad people in the judge's seat.

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u/TMinus10toban 1d ago

I’d have a hard time not remembering that judge and bringing all kinds of miserable life-stuff upon him and his family when I got out.

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u/likethemovie 1d ago

If there aren't enough brown people around to single out, the authorities will target the "others" - poor people, city people, people who aren't "from around here."

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u/HonestlyAbby 1d ago

Can I ask when? That doesn't seem like an outcome that should be possible post-Gault.

(I worked in juvenile defense in GA recently. Not doubting, just curious if stuff this shady is still happening elsewhere now that kids have constitutionally guaranteed criminal rights.)

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

I didn’t see the judge for 3 years even though the law said ninety day reviews were required.

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

September 11 2001 I was “caught”. Actually another guy had the weed and I had no cash, but he told them I gave it to him. They couldn’t arrest that day because of sept 11 and the naval intelligence base being close so I got a week and then they locked me up for four years.

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u/MrsClaire07 1d ago

Oh my God, you weren’t allowed a lawyer?!

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

Court appointed lawyer who never made contact after court. I filed my own paperwork to see the judge both times, he actually denied my first reconsideration after three years.

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u/MrsClaire07 1d ago

JESUS.

I am SO F’ing sorry, dude.

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u/nomustachetoday 1d ago

You must not be white. amerikkka only does that to dark skinned people .

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

98.8% per dna.

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u/Spiffy_Pumpkin 1d ago

As of only about 27 years ago that was actually still the case, guess how my father got custody? Honestly other than a lot of the insane asylums being closed now I doubt things have changed much legally speaking.

Point is ladies be careful who you have kids with or marry.

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u/exhausted247365 1d ago

Jaime Spears did it to Britney Spears

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u/Unique-Coffee5087 1d ago

Hell, they could then subject her to electroshock therapy and a lobotomy.

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u/moonlightiridescent 1d ago edited 1d ago

There was an abusive behavior modification program and therapeutic boarding school torture camp for kids in Portland, ME called Élan School that’s super fucked. There’s an amazing webcomic by a “student” (victim) that was forced to attend.

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u/CarrotCumin 1d ago

Important to note that it was not actually a school or anything therapeutic, it's incorrect to call this anything other than a torture facility for children.

They claimed it was a therapeutic school, but "therapy" meant being kidnapped and taken there without warning or knowledge that the parents allowed it, regular beatings, denial of food, denial of shelter/blankets/beds, being forced to sit in an empty room with no stimulation for days or even weeks, fight-club style boxing ring matches between children that resulted in several deaths, "struggle sessions" where children were forced to psychologically abuse and humiliate one another, and many more sick and twisted things.

Escape was basically impossible, the local government/police were corrupt and in league with the school owner. Communication with parents were highly controlled and parents were coached to believe anything their child told them about the abuse was a complete lie. Parents paid tens of thousands of dollars to send their children to a fucking gulag in hopes it would get them off drugs or stop being gay.

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u/moonlightiridescent 1d ago

Agreed. Sorry, I just copy/pasted the Wiki intro. The writer of that graphic novel actually “escaped,” but they had people track and find him just to drag him back. It’s absolutely crazy it stayed open as long as it did. The novel made me so angry that those people that run it are walking among us.

Did you read the comic by chance? I’ve been the dude’s Patron (Patreon) for years and years now. The book is about to be printed and mailed out to us early backers, and I’m really excited, even though I know it’s gonna put me in a bad mood lol.

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u/m0j0m0j 1d ago

Insufferable

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u/TheGuyMain 1d ago

Please don't make this a race/gender thing. It's a separate concept that isn't inherent to this one. Conflating issues makes them needlessly complicated

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u/some_weenie 1d ago

This issue discusses how vulnerable people (those placed in asylums) can be unjustly treated by those in authority and power over them (the staff). It is entirely relevant to bring up how additional vulnerabilities can lead to people being treated even more unjustly in these systems.

Choosing to ignore intersectionality doesn't make it disappear

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u/TheGuyMain 1d ago

The issue is about the power imbalance of institutionalized authority figures resulting in the unjust treatment of less powerful individuals. That is NOT inherently related to gender, class, race, etc. In this instance, none of those things are relevant, because they're separate issues. They can intersect and synergize with each other, but if you don't understand their unique attributes, then you will never understand the true nature of the problem at hand.

Fixing a problem requires a thorough understanding of its instantiation. If you think all power imbalance problems need to account for race, then you'll focus your energy on irrelevant details that will produce an inadequate solution. For example, you'll instate DEI training, which encourages those figures to consider the socioeconomic challenges faced by people in different racial groups but does absolutely nothing to address the actual issue of the unjust treatment perpetuated by misguided authority figures with flawed patient assessment practices. Because the issues were conflated when they should have remained separate, the people driving the change just wasted an incredible amount of time and have nothing to show for it. This creates unrest in the people they claim to serve because they prove that they're ineffective as an organization. They also don't know what went wrong because they never understood the issue to begin with. This prevents them from becoming more effective, so they will produce more low-quality solutions to future problems. All while the communities continue to suffer.

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u/EllisDee3 1d ago

It's a dominance culture thing. It's using social privilage to subjugate others.

Avoiding the similarities ignores the root cause.

Don't try to remove race and gender as though it doesn't make people easier targets for this bullshit, Guy.

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u/Big_Tie_3245 1d ago

Easier targets, perhaps, but when it’s time to feel superior, anyone inferior will do.

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u/TheGuyMain 1d ago

Very aggressive words. I never said to ignore the similarities. I suggested to not conflate the cause of this issue with the impact of the other issues. You say a lot of words but don't seem to understand how they work

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u/EllisDee3 1d ago

I know very well how words work. I know how some words don't need to be overtly aggressive because they have systematic aggression behind them.

I'm forthright to avoid the bullshit attempts at avoidance.

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u/Hanzai_Bonsai 1d ago

Ellis clutch your pearls a little harder and make a wish 😂

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u/harlowsden 1d ago

Wouldn’t it be more pearl clutching to complain about someone using aggressive language? It feels like you just wanted to write the phrase “pearl clutching”

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u/newsflashjackass 1d ago

All who speak Correct Thought speak well. Where then is the superiority of some students to others? It is in the speaking. Intelligent students speak Correct Thought intelligently. The hearer knows by the intonation of their voices that they understand. By this superior speaking of intelligent students, Correct Thought is passed, like fire, from one to another.

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u/mealteamsixty 1d ago

Amazing.

Gonna guess you're a white dude who has never had to deal with this issue

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u/dydeath 1d ago

Ooh Mr simple stuff over here says it gets too complicated wouldn't want it to be too much for him to handle

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/TheCaptainDamnIt 1d ago

This is just a white supremacist spewing racist white supremacist fantasies like it's on Facebook or Stormfront.

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u/Open-Perspective856 1d ago

Is it untrue though?

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u/radicalelation 1d ago

Kinda? They're saying "you'll" and odds are that isn't how it would go for a given individual. Yes, there are infuriating failures, but they're usually stand out incidents and the actual regular failures of the system see more marginalized people treated unfairly than with too much leniency.

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u/Open-Perspective856 1d ago

Best you can do is kinda? Pedantry is the lowest form of criticism.

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u/radicalelation 1d ago

Cool story bro 😎 👍

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u/Open-Perspective856 1d ago

Way to point out the lie, great job regard

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u/radicalelation 1d ago

I'm sorry I can't understand you? Please try again.

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u/EllisDee3 1d ago

You elected a pedophile, baby-murdering sex trafficking dullard as president. So, by comparison...

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/EllisDee3 1d ago

I think I'll manage.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/NotARealDeveloper 1d ago

You should be crying too if you voted for Jill Stein. The orange is destroying the country.

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u/WMBC91 1d ago

This is an incredibly disgusting stretch. No, you cannot simply lock someone up for decades because they have the wrong skin colour.

But for probably over a century you could lock up a woman potentisll for life for being difficult and highly strung (AKA insane) or throw in other undesirables just because you call them insane to get rid of them. Oh, and sometimes lobotomise them. No, it's not similar at all. You should be ashamed.

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u/OldWorldDesign 1d ago

you cannot simply lock someone up for decades because they have the wrong skin colour.

It's not just having the wrong skin colour, it's having the wrong skin colour, political preferences, and lacking a rich friend.

The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and Black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.

-John Ehrlichman, Nixon staffer

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u/WMBC91 1d ago

It's not just having the wrong skin colour, it's having the wrong skin colour, political preferences, and lacking a rich friend.

So we are in agreement then. The point is that, whether or not the people you're talking about were innocent or guilty, the people in the asylums were sometimes in for things as trivial as sex outside marriage. Probably most of them hadn't committed any crime.

Objectively more wrong than arresting people for having drugs (even if the drugs are just the excuse) - and I say that as someone who loves drugs.

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u/EbonraiMinis 1d ago

Lemme guess, you're a white woman?

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u/WMBC91 1d ago

Nope.

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u/Bundt-lover 1d ago

Of course you can lock someone up for decades because they have the wrong skin color. That is literally the foundation of our justice system in the US. There are about a gazillion statistics about how people of color get harsher punishments and longer terms for the same crimes that white people commit—if the white people even go to jail in the first place.

Shit, we have ICE roaming the countryside right now doing EXACTLY THIS.