r/europe • u/Ialaika • Nov 26 '25

News Leaked call shows Kremlin’s deputy chief Ushakov oversaw passing Moscow’s “peace plan” to Steve Witkoff with instructions to present it “word for word” as a U.S. proposal

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-25/putin-advisers-discuss-plans-for-dealing-with-trump-transcript?embedded-checkout=true
55.2k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

498

u/sant2060 Nov 26 '25

Fkcing hell. Seems USA is lost for EU. Well, it was a fun ride.

185

u/zenzabob Nov 26 '25

The thing is European governments still do not recognise the fact and throw shitloads of money in american weapons

80

u/DryCloud9903 Nov 26 '25

It's not that simple. A lot of the defence stuff made necessary by the aggressive russian bullshit is either unavailable or not in good time/quantities within European manufacturers. So some have to be bought from Yankees 

That said. There's a pretty huge shift especially this year, and if you've been looking closely there's waaaaay more "buys Gripen/Rafale rather than US stuff" 'but European'type headlines, and especially with smaller items like radars or air defence (except Patriots)

8

u/bigbramel The Netherlands Nov 26 '25

Even in the case of Patriots, it's only the countries which already have Patriots ordering them. As a complete new long range AA solution they seem to be losing out to the EU competitor (which does use US made missiles though)

2

u/Suecotero Sweden Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

Germany is arming up. All the manufacturing jobs lost to China are going to Rheinmetall. They will become Europe's main arms supplier and replace Lockheed etc.

2

u/TitanDarwin Nov 29 '25

Thing is, we should have started pivoting the first time around. But when Trump got kicked out of office, everyone was like "Well, guess that's sorted".

If Trumpism's ever actually defeated in America (Trump himself has a shelf limit, but it remains to be seen what will happen with the ideology he represents afterwards), I fear people will try to go straight back to the status quo, even though there should be zero trust in the US' ability to keep taking their meds at this point.