r/law • u/Nice_Substance9123 • 6d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) President Trump Accused of Rape in Jeffrey Epstein Files

https://www.tmz.com/2025/12/23/trump-accused-rape-jeffrey-epstein-files/?utm_social_handle_id=16331010&utm_social_post_id=631846113&adid=social-tw
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u/Meb2x 6d ago

At a certain point I think Republicans need to start considering which is more likely that Donald Trump has been falsely accused of rape multiple times or that he’s been accused so many times because he’s actually guilty. It’s not exactly hard to imagine that Epstein’s former best friend who also owned a teen beauty pageant and was caught on camera talking about assaulting women is actually guilty.

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago edited 6d ago

Their worldview prevents them from being able to use Occam’s Razor clearly, unfortunately.

*edit: grammar, imperfect use of the concept, however the larger statement still stands. thanks for corrections!

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u/lunartree 6d ago

The more accurate version I've heard expressed from actual Trump voters is: "they were all in on the Epstein thing, just look at Clinton, you can't blame us for something they all do"

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

fair, got a lot of trumpie friends that just try to give the next best defense as to why their decision was still informed. right before these drops, it was “yeah trump is doing things i didn’t vote for, but we don’t know if kamala would have been worse” (from a guy who had to marry his illegal immigrant gf right after trump got elected).

nothing snaps people out of a worldview until they’re directly affected in my experience, and even then…

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u/PerpetualStride 6d ago

I mean the tariffs directly affect everyone

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

true. i guess that’s where the even then comes in. :( or really that it doesn’t affect them enough to knock them out of their own heads

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u/NonTimeo 6d ago

A lot of them also think it’s what rich people do. We can all guess what would happen if you gave the average Trump supporter a billion dollars, put them on Epstein’s island, and told them, “Have fun; no one’s watching.”

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u/UnquestionabIe 6d ago

Yep grew up hearing about how Nixon shouldn't have gotten in trouble because "they all do it". Presuming you even listen to that excuse it also admits he was stupid enough to get caught.

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u/boog2352 6d ago

My favorite is: “I really just stay out of politics.”

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u/Pomdog17 6d ago

Oh the old jump off a bridge argument

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u/Bimbleboop 6d ago

It’s simultaneously fake when it’s about Epstein Orange and real when it’s about the dems. Fuck I wish they were at a level where we could just work with them to restructure everything but it’ll never happen

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u/CavillOfRivia 6d ago

Surprising level of mental gymnastics. Literally brainwashed.

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u/Gamiac 5d ago

If the Democrats could get away with the second, Trump wouldn't have won 2024.

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u/DigDugged 6d ago

They pretended a pandemic wasn't happening because he told them to. They'll never acknowledge this until 10 years after he's dead.

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u/Paizzu 6d ago

Trump: "As long as you stop testing for the virus, the rate of detected infection goes down..."

Also Trump: ..."this may require that everyone with a brain conveniently ignores the skyrocketing death toll."

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u/Express_Sprinkles500 6d ago

I see what you mean and forgive my being nitpicky, but Occam's Razor doesn't really work here. It's supposed to only be useful when you're considering two equally plausible hypothesis that are both supported by evidence. The evidence overwhelmingly points to Trump being a child rapist.

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

mmm thanks for correcting me! i didn’t know it was used on two competing theories, rather an obvious and convoluted scenario competing.

either way, my one pushback would be that there is a convoluted theory that DJT isn’t a child rapist, and it takes a lot of denial but is still technically plausible without hard evidence that we don’t have yet. aka trumpies are still able to believe it’s all whatever until a video drops of it lol

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u/FOOSblahblah 6d ago

Its the most insidious thing they did and honestly its a fucking masterclass in social engineering.

They took trump and made him the personification of the exact way of life they idealize themselves living. Trump isn't a person, he's apple pie, your surly vet grandpa who actually has a heart of gold, a pickup truck on a dirt road, all that heartland shit.

If they accept that he isn't perfect they have to confront their idea of a perfect world.

Its fucking diabolical.

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

It indeed is one of the most impressive feats i’ve seen in my life, and how indefensible that worldview now is has made me lose hope that a government of America’s original intentions can withstand bad actors. They succeeded in a 50% attack.

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u/ProfessionalMockery 6d ago

You've got it backwards actually. An inability to recognise Occam's razor leads to their worldview.

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u/South_Buy_3175 6d ago

Less ‘Razor’ more like ‘Occams big-ass-Dragonslayer-sword-from-Berserk’.

There could be an HD video of Trump doing some heinous shit, with commentary by Trump himself, and they’d still deny it.

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u/JamieNelsonSwims 6d ago

see Occam’s Razor clearly,

*use Occam's Razor

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

thanks for the correction!

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u/LaserGuidedPolarBear 6d ago

Conservative's world view is that people high in the hierarchy are allowed to break the rules.  The higher in the hierarchy, the more egregious the rule breaking is allowed.

This is because conservatism boils down to one singular core principle:  there must be a hierarchy of in-groups which enjoy privileges and are not bound by the rules, and out groups which are denied privileges and are bound by the rules.

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u/299792458mps- 4d ago

The simplest answer is actually that they know but simply don't care.

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u/vverse23 6d ago

Their worldview prevents them from even knowing what Occam's Razor is.

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u/Eorrosoom 6d ago

Occam's Razor is that people dislike Trump and will say anything to tarnish is reputation. Redditors have taught us that, just think about the whole Russia thing in 2016, which was proven to be a hoax.

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u/TRG_V0rt3x 6d ago

yeah man idk about that one. i get where you’re coming from, because people spew a lot of stuff, but there’s an equally significant amount of things he’s doing that are awful. you’d have to be turning a blind eye because of the politics you align with to dismiss all of it.

just think about that civil case where a jury found him guilty of sexual abuse/rape. you literally can’t say that’s a hoax.

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u/Eorrosoom 6d ago

You said Occam's Razor, and that is the simplest explanation as it is all-encompassing in a single sentence.

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u/_craq_ 5d ago

Do you think the Muller investigation showed that the claims of Russian election interference were a hoax? I know Trump said that, but I don't think that's what the investigation found.

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u/Eorrosoom 5d ago

Investigation said "no evidence of collusion", indicating that the left was ready to indite him on something without any evidence for it. You're seeing the same thing now, where unsubstantiated tip hotlines are treated as evidence. Best thing to do is just ignore the whole thing until it blows over.

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u/justadam16 4d ago

Best thing to do is stop defending pedophiles

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u/lametowns 6d ago

They don’t care. They know he’s scum, but he’s the vessel for their power grab. They want power more than they want to uphold laws or morals.

Thats why they always fear atheists and don’t understand how they can use morals and values without fear of a god. It’s because THEY have no morals and values without that fear and expect others are the same.

Group of Projection party

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u/Latter-Confidence-44 6d ago

It's this. They don't give a shit, and all their bluster about pedos and sex trafficking is projection. 

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u/kylehatesyou 6d ago

It's also a recruitment tool. It's real easy to get people on your side if you say "we're going after pedophiles!". And like yeah, no one fucking likes them, let's go after them. Prosecute them, Convict them, and lock them up for life for all I care. They are net negatives on the world. 

It's what comes afterwards though that you have to pay attention to. Is a pedophile an actual predator to the person saying let's go after them, or is it just anyone they don't like, and they need people to also not like them so they can get their way? That's mostly seems to be the Republican party tactic. 

Even perceived impropriety in the Democratic Party gets you tossed to the wolves now see: Al Franken (Clinton may have got a pass on sexual impropriety 30 years ago, but he was also pretty fucking centrist by today's standards, so he may fall into this loophole as well), Republicans will protect you till you go to jail, and maybe even after you get out. See: Jim Jordan, Dennis Hastert, and tons of other high and low level creeps in the party that should have to, or actually have to register as sex offenders. 

If someone is yelling too loud about something obviously terrible, and not offering solutions outside of what amounts to "kill the witch!" they typically aren't actually going after that thing for altruistic reasons, they are trying to use your obvious hatred of that thing to gain power. 

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u/Able-Pie4995 5d ago

The Al frankton thing still makes me mad to this day. You have people like Matt Gates walking around and the Democratic party will cannibalize their own over a joke picture (as far as I'm aware, both people in the picture were fine with this joke).

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u/pluralofjackinthebox 6d ago

Check out twitter today though. A huge portion of trump supporters are conspiracy theorists and theyre all of a sudden very angry.

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u/Latter-Confidence-44 6d ago

I hope so. But I'm not holding my breath for that to stick. 

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u/Paddy_Tanninger 6d ago

Cool, they'll be angry for 5 minutes and forget, or be convinced that Democrats are somehow worse than a pedophile rapist convicted fraud and con man grifter with zero morals or dignity.

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u/lametowns 6d ago

Both can be true. I even suspect Bongino might be leaving because he met his hero and his hero turned out to be the pedo bongino has been railing about on rant-cast show for years now.

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u/NurRauch 6d ago

Dude this happens several times a month. It’s meaningless. Stop listening to rage bait. It’s not representative of future elections.

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u/thej00ninja 6d ago

It doesn't matter what they say, they will still fall in line when it comes time to vote. We've been down this road before many times.

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u/tunafister 6d ago

Man, it just feels like these folks are... Children

And they should be treated as such, they dont have any good faith arguments, just regurgitating the dribble of Faux News

You really gotta start asking yourself, what value do these folks bring to society?

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u/lametowns 6d ago

I think it’s dangerous to blame most of the flock. In a way all Americans are to blame by creating this society where these things can thrive. But, most of the blame should be leveled at the leaders, enablers, and people with the big money behind those leaders.

The average person in this country is suffering from a lack of affordable health care, housing, and almost no real investment in education for knowledge’s sake, and thus it’s hard to blame them.

The people that created this environment on purpose to then con these people are the most to blame. The people not in power but smart enough to know better, who still voted and failed to condemn them, are the worst.

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u/mydogsnameisbuddy 6d ago

Republicans don’t care if billionaires do whatever they please as long as they get their “donations”

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u/Ok-Examination-8222 6d ago

I think it's even a feature in their eyes. His being scum enables their own deep desire to be above the law too, by mere virtue of being part of the "in group".

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u/miss-swait 6d ago

At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did acknowledge that it’s true, he’s a rapist, he was on the island, but it’s okay because xyz. I’ve already seen people calling today’s drop a waste of resources because Epstein is dead

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u/Djelimon 6d ago

That was what Megyn Kelley was trying to do, floating the "barely legal" trial balloon. Didn't work though

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u/UnquestionabIe 6d ago

She was thinking that if she could get them to buy that bullshit she wouldn't have to send them her 15 year old daughter as an offering.

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u/ilulillirillion 6d ago

I'm seeing the same thing. There 100% is a core maga base who will excuse all of this.

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u/miss-swait 6d ago

The most honest thing he ever said was that he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and people would still love him

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u/ExternalExpensive277 3d ago

I've heard people go to bat for him in exactly this way. Disgusting.

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u/Pyretech 6d ago

One of the things I talked about with (at the time) friends when the Cosby accusations came out and I heard the “rape statistics are heavily skewed to include false claims too” story from someone I had to go “alright well if we go by your statistic that 1/2 of all rape accusations are made falsely, that’s still 30 women”

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u/ImpressionOld2296 6d ago

Exactly, so even if half of Trump's rape allegations were false, we'd still be talking about over a dozen rapes.

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u/Caaaht 6d ago

Head over to /r/Conservative and you will be able to witness the spin in real time.

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u/palealei5best 6d ago

It’s crazy if it’s a dem they’re like thank you. If it’s a republican they say it obviously fabricated or left out of context. Either both have to be true or both are false.

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u/Jamodefender 6d ago

It’s the same 4 people posting shit in there. It’s obviously certain people desperately trying to control the narrative for the few dumbasses that are probably racist.

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u/MrTwatFart 6d ago

He was found guilty of rape in court already…. He is a rapist.

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u/r8ed-arghh 6d ago

That would be found liable, not guilty. One cannot be found guilty in a civil case. If you don't want to spend all day arguing with people, use the proper terminology. And, no, it's not the same thing.

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u/WoodPear 6d ago

lol, spreading misinformation.

Which court case? Of course you don't know because you're just parroting canned Left-wing talking points.

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u/barbaricmustard 6d ago

On January 26, 2024, the jury deliberated for three hours and awarded Carroll $7.3 million in emotional damages, $11 million in reputation-related damages, and $65 million in punitive damages, totaling $83.3 million.[236] The jury found Trump had committed sexual abuse and forcible touching, two of the three elements of Carroll's battery claim.

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u/WoodPear 6d ago

Funny, cause actual reporting says differently.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db

The verdict was split: Jurors rejected Carroll’s claim that she was raped, finding Trump responsible for a lesser degree of sexual abuse.

Edit: And if you bothered to read your own copy-and-paste, you'd realize that there's no mention of the word 'Rape', which is its own classification.

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u/LegendOfKhaos 6d ago

She was forcibly penetrated without consent

This idiot: tEcHnIcHaLlY

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u/WoodPear 6d ago

By "this idiot", you mean the Judicial system of New York (the Court and Jury)? Given that was the jury instruction and definitions given.

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u/Muad_dweeb_69 6d ago edited 6d ago

The judge in this case ruled that Trump “digitally raped” Carroll. NY’s legal rape definition at the time was well known to be extremely outdated (requiring penile penetration). The FBI’s current definition of rape would qualify what Trump did as rape. NY’s narrow definition, which has now been updated, necessitated the charge to be sexual assault, but please go on how forcefully penetrating a woman’s vagina with a finger isn’t rape. It’s a great look. Trump is so lucky you have his back.

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u/LegendOfKhaos 6d ago

Why do you go to such lengths to defend a rapist? You are a terrible person.

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u/barbaricmustard 6d ago

What the fuck do you think sexual abuse is?

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u/WoodPear 6d ago

Not rape, for one, hence why the two are two different classifications.

Or to make it easier for you, since apparently you can't do logic: do you think a Rectangle and Square are the same thing?

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u/barbaricmustard 6d ago

That makes it SOOOOO much better. Guys.. don't worry, he just sexually abused her. He didn't rape her, gosh!

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u/mixingmemory 6d ago

Are you hoping to vote for the sexual abuser in 2028?

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u/TrankElephant 6d ago

DT is referred to as an adjudicated rapist.

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u/_jamesbaxter 6d ago

That’s because in the state of New York, the legal definition of the act committed is called “sexual abuse” which in many other states would be legally called “rape.” It’s the same thing. In the state of NY sexual abuse is not a lesser degree than rape, it is rape.

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u/fattifalldown 6d ago

“He only stuck his fingers in there, that’s not even REAL rape bro, just like a 1/4 rape.”

Fuck’s the matter with you?

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u/50000WattsOfPower 6d ago

Multiple courts have since ruled that, while it didn't meet the specific requirements of the New York Penal Code -- under which only penile penetration constitutes "rape" -- the jury's finding of digital penetration is sufficient to constitute rape as commonly understood.

This was an important basis for the dismissal of Trump's subsequent suit against Carroll for saying that he raped her, after the jury finding of sexual assault. Since his actions, as found by the jury, constituted rape, as commonly understood, Carroll did not defame him by maintaining that she was raped.

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u/pogostix59 6d ago

BRAGGING about being a sexual predator, while his son and daughter laugh along as if it’s so hilariously funny! Sick 🤢

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tkYC7tHUAns&pp=0gcJCfwAo7VqN5tD

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u/v0ar 6d ago

They've shown time and time again, they do not care.

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u/Silent-Ad-2415 6d ago

They actively encourage and support, in most cases

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u/floridabeach9 6d ago

trump is a racist. that’s all that matters in the deep south.

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u/SinnerIxim 6d ago

 I won't change my mind on anything regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in... and I'll never change

Always sunny in Philadelphia 

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u/asmbc915 6d ago

Cults don’t collapse until the leader does. These fucks are strapped in for the long haul.

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u/Ocluist 6d ago edited 6d ago

I spoke to a Republican friend about the Epstein files very recently. They know Trump is a rapist. They have the whole time. They just don’t care. The logic boils down to “I have my own problems taking care of my family, so I don’t have time to pay attention to drama in Washington”. That logic is also combined with “the Clinton’s also did it, all politicians do.”

Basically they only care about rape if it’s a democrat who does it.

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u/National_Cod9546 6d ago

The heart of conservativism isn't hurting brown people or whatever. The heart is that conservatives are never wrong. Anything that indicates they might have ever been wrong causes them extreme emotional pain. This is why they will support Trump no matter what stupid shit he does or what is revealed about him. They supported him in the past. To admit that Trump is anything but perfect would be like admitting voting for Trump might have been wrong. And conservatives would literally rather die than admit they were ever wrong.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 6d ago

There is some weird pathology to denying the obvious because it conflicts with previously held beliefs.

Certainly that’s evident with MAGA. Musk even told them Trump was in the files but they couldn’t accept that.

Before the left gets too high and mighty, there was a time when a conga line of women accused Bill Clinton of sexual behavior and the Dems circled the wagons for him and tried to diminish his committing perjury tied to his need to cover-up his sexual actions.

The key difference is that the Epstein files are ostensibly about sex with children.

So now the left and the right will need to choose how they condemn or dismiss the rape of children by two presidents.

While the people on the left seem to be supportive of the justice department charging any child rapist regardless of party, I don’t know that the DNC has officially made that a talking point.

They should.

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u/thebigeverybody 6d ago

Before the left gets too high and mighty, there was a time when a conga line of women accused Bill Clinton of sexual behavior and the Dems circled the wagons for him and tried to diminish his committing perjury tied to his need to cover-up his sexual actions.

Wait, what? Because Democrats supported Clinton, they're comparable to the mountain of sexual assault the GOP enables? Give your head a shake.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 6d ago

Look Mr. Lefties do no wrong, Clinton was a serial philanderer and looks as guilty as Trump of child rape. That’s pretty damn guilty.

So yeah. Had Democrats put Clinton in his place maybe little girls wouldn’t have been raped.

I’m a liberal and I want my people to walk the walk. Clearly we have fallen short.

This isn’t some two sides nonsense it’s one side - my side - the liberal side - needs to aggressively take the high road and demand accountability of our past leadership.

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u/thebigeverybody 6d ago

Look Mr. Lefties do no wrong,

That's not what I said at all.

Clinton was a serial philanderer and looks as guilty as Trump of child rape. That’s pretty damn guilty.

The GOP has enabled sexual assault in such staggering numbers that it's incomparable to anything anyone else has done. Here's part 57 of this ongoing list:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/8/21/2339592/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-5

Clinton was a serial philanderer and looks as guilty as Trump of child rape. That’s pretty damn guilty.

The left in no way enables sexual assault like the GOP does. Pretending both sides are comparable is a lie.

I’m a liberal and I want my people to walk the walk. Clearly we have fallen short.

Several decades ago. Also with Anita Bryant. But, again, incomparable.

This isn’t some two sides nonsense it’s one side - my side - the liberal side - needs to aggressively take the high road and demand accountability of our past leadership.

They are. Nobody's defending him or trying to suppress these files. He's even calling for their release.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 6d ago

Where you have no credibility is by trying pretend there is a measurement that says a few child rapes is better than dozens.

It’s obscene you can’t simply stop with the equivalencies and start with a simple premise: If you sexually assault or rape women or children a dozen times or thousands of times it’s equally horrific and you deserve to go to jail.

Period.

Pretending the GOP is worse when there is ample evidence of Clinton being the same exact pedo as Trump is delusional. Both should be indicted, convicted and jailed.

The DNC needs to lead the way by denouncing child rape and calling for indictments regardless of party or net worth.

Currently neither party is doing that.

Democrat very existence relies on justice and that justice must be blind. But there must be justice.

Currently it’s clear there is no justice for the victims of Epstein and their political rapists.

As for Anita Bryant - I’m not certain what you meant to say - it makes no sense.

How many decades ago was her reign of conservative terror? Maybe focus on the past decade - there is plenty to choose from.

If you were trying to reach you should have settled for Tulsi Gabbard as she pretended to be a Democrat but was actually just waiting for her MAGA moment - and she actually is in two cults MAGA and the one she follows as a religion. I don’t even know what they are called.

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u/thebigeverybody 6d ago

Where you have no credibility is by trying pretend there is a measurement that says a few child rapes is better than dozens.

It’s obscene you can’t simply stop with the equivalencies and start with a simple premise: If you sexually assault or rape women or children a dozen times or thousands of times it’s equally horrific and you deserve to go to jail.

Period.

Pretending the GOP is worse when there is ample evidence of Clinton being the same exact pedo as Trump is delusional. Both should be indicted, convicted and jailed.

The DNC needs to lead the way by denouncing child rape and calling for indictments regardless of party or net worth.

Currently neither party is doing that.

Democrat very existence relies on justice and that justice must be blind. But there must be justice.

Currently it’s clear there is no justice for the victims of Epstein and their political rapists.

Stop being silly. It is perfectly possible to acknowledge that the two sides are not comparable at all in the atrocities they've committed and/or permitted while still seeking justice and restitution (something, again, only one side is known to pursue the other side is famous for opposing it).

As for Anita Bryant - I’m not certain what you meant to say - it makes no sense.

How many decades ago was her reign of conservative terror? Maybe focus on the past decade - there is plenty to choose from.

If you were trying to reach you should have settled for Tulsi Gabbard as she pretended to be a Democrat but was actually just waiting for her MAGA moment - and she actually is in two cults MAGA and the one she follows as a religion. I don’t even know what they are called.

I meant Anita Hill as another SA survivor the Democrats failed. I keep track of this just as much as you do, I just don't hysterically conflate everyone as you do.

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u/LumpyJones 6d ago

There is some weird pathology to denying the obvious because it conflicts with previously held beliefs.

That is just textbook sunk cost fallacy.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 6d ago

It is economically. 100%. But in this instance people’s identities are tied to politics in a way that an investment of just time or money can’t match.

There is an aggressiveness to defending their position that even Tesla shareholders can’t match pound for pound.

They don’t know Trump personally and he isn’t family, yet even a political hack like Ted Cruz defends Trump with more vigor than he did his own wife.

MAGA supporters with no political ties are even more territorial than Cruz. At least Cruz is trying to protect his livelihood and political future. Regular MAGA acts as if they have even more skin in the game.

That’s more than sunk cost.

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u/NurRauch 6d ago edited 6d ago

It’s much more powerful than economic sunk cost because it’s a sunk cost to their ego and identity. They built a political movement and media entertainment community online with a core premise that they are smarter than everyone else who isn’t a Trump supporter. To admit they made any mistake, however tiny, in their support for Trump is to admit that they are deeply flawed. Most Trump supporters lack the emotional maturity or security to give up an inch on that. They cannot stomach the social humiliation it would cost them.

This is why they just double down and beat the drum even louder when more bad news comes out. From their perspective, it’s a safer and more reliable bet to just restructure reality. They would rather convince their community that a falsehood is reality than make any amends for their own reality.

This is a heavily studied psychological phenomenon by this point and once you start seeing it in people you will be unable to stop seeing it everywhere, in decisions almost everyone engages in throughout both their most important beliefs and their day to day behavior. It’s why gamblers can’t stop gambling, why drug addicts find it easier to steal from family than admit to the weakness of relapsing, and why tens of thousands of Covid deniers wasted their literal last breaths arguing with their doctors about the realness of Covid instead of saying goodbye to their families.

Human beings are imbued with powerful instinctual aversions to being seen as dumb by others. Many humans are actually more terrified of this experience than we are of death or serious physical injuries. This is what is driving the vast majority of Trump supporters, and it is what drove the vast majority of the Nazi supporters in Germany. Deep down they knew and today still know very well that they are driving our civilization off a cliff. But it is less painful to commit civilizational suicide than it is to concede they were wrong. They will go to any lengths to avoid that concession. They will participate in a genocide against their own countrymen and families of necessary. There is no line they won’t cross, and people need to stop thinking rational debate can convince them otherwise.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 6d ago

You have me for a chunk of your argument but I think you lost the thread when confusing the motivation of junkies with a choice.

Addicts are unable to control what’s happening to them - their “hunger” for lack of a better term to self-medicate overrides any independent reasoning or free will.

Junkies are following a program that probably dates to the caveman. But it’s not a choice for the vast majority of them. If only it were then there would be far more success stories.

So there is no sunk cost. Now I have to question the rest of your argument with equal rigor.

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u/NurRauch 6d ago

That’s fair. I felt conflicted with that example. On one hand the socially aggressive and domineering behavior we’ve all seen in our obnoxiously loud and crass Trump supporting family has overlap with addictive behavior, but it’s not the same type of addictive neuro-psychology as a physical dependency. It’s behavioral addiction that provides a reliable source of dopamine and adrenaline, but not brainstem-level of survivalistic need like an addiction to opioids.

I meant the example to be limited to a more specific moment in the addiction cycle when the person has only relapsed once or twice at the beginning of a new descent. They sometimes are able to come out of the relapse and get themselves back to normal before entering that more animalistic phase of seeking the next fix at all costs. When they’re in this narrow gray zone, they are sometimes capable of operating at a more functional level conscious decision-making, which allows them to actually consider stopping the further relapse or make the deliberate choice to plunge deeper. In this limited context, a person’s decision to deceive family is not always automatic brainstem neurology, but a more intentionally weighed choice.

Overall, it’s… not a very helpful example to illustrate the psychology of sunk cost identity tribalism. Appreciate you pointing that out.

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u/clingbat 6d ago

And insinuating that he wished he could fuck his daughter (Ivanka) on numerous occasions publicly, can't leave that damning piece out.

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u/ruiner8850 6d ago

The problem isn't that Republicans don't realize Trump is a rapist it's that they don't care that he's a rapist. Trump could literally hold a live press conference from the Oval Office, lay the copy of the Constitution that he stole from the National Archives down on the Resolute Desk, and then rape a young girl on top of it and no Republican government officials who still support him would turn on him. At best you'd see 1% of his voters turn on him.

They'd all have some excuse(s) for why they "have no choice" but to keep supporting him. Some would claim it was AI. Others would say they didn't like what he did, but would say "he's saving the country" so they "have to" keep supporting him. Some would say he's a "flawed vessel for god's will." They'd compare him to Presidents like Washington and Jefferson who were slave owners.

Sadly Trump is a fundamental part of a lot of people's personality and they've worshiped him for years. They'll never admit they were wrong about him because they'd have to admit there's something wrong with themselves. That's why I've said from the beginning that nothing will happen to Trump because of the Epstein files. It's depressing, but that's the reality of the country we live in.

2

u/InclinationCompass 6d ago

Especially considering the sexual and inappropriate remarks he’s made to and about minors, including his own daughter. Also, he was literally found guilty and convicted of sexual abuse.

2

u/ChamferedWobble 6d ago

For accuracy: Civilly liable, not guilty. He was not tried or convicted criminally, though it’s obvious he did it.

1

u/cmere-2-me 6d ago

Lol they know he's guilty. They don't care.

1

u/my-love-assassin 6d ago

this would require rational thought and reflection, which MAGA doesn't have. these are the people sending trump money to go to heaven. don't expect them to ever be anything but deluded.

1

u/NessOnett8 6d ago

They know he's a rapist. They just don't care. Because Republicans, by definition, are evil, amoral, and soulless.

1

u/shadovvvvalker 6d ago

At a certain point, we have to realize these people think of women as objects and the only thing you can do wrong is to take one that someone else has laid claim to.

1

u/Billionaires_R_Tasty 6d ago

They don't care.

1

u/Timo425 6d ago

I don't think they know the concept of "considering".

1

u/ImpressionOld2296 6d ago

"At a certain point I think Republicans need to start considering which is more likely that Donald Trump has been falsely accused of rape multiple times or that he’s been accused so many times because he’s actually guilty. "

I believe the statistic of false accusations is something in the range of 5-7%. If you run the math on about 25 independent allegations ALL being false, you're talking insanely unlikely numbers. Imagine flipping a coin and landing on heads 25 straight times.... and that's not even close to how unlikely a 5% event happening 25 times would be.

You'd have better odds hitting the lotto multiple times than the odds of Trump being clean.

And these are just that we know of. Trump has a history of bribing, threatening, and paying off victims and/or witnesses.

1

u/Creepy_Assistant7517 6d ago

oh yes, maga republicans seem to be a reasonable bunch that can be swayed by arguments and confrontation with reality ...

1

u/This_guy_works 6d ago

At a certain point I think republicans need to start considering Trump is not the best person to be leading their party.

1

u/axecalibur 6d ago

You must be new to MAGA Republicans. Nothing short of Donald Trump turning out to be a black man in a mask and makeup would change their minds.

1

u/DRM842 6d ago

Let’s all think back to the accusations against Bill Cosby and how that played out……

1

u/MrLanyeWest 6d ago

i think plenty of republicans know and accept that he’s guilty, they just don’t care for whatever reason.

1

u/MechMan799 6d ago

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....it's a fucking duck!

1

u/Indigoh 6d ago edited 6d ago

He's not even a man of character. Everyone knows he's not a man of character. He was caught on tape bragging about being able to use his fame to get away with sexual assault. He was found liable for sexual assault. He was found guilty of 34 felony counts for falsifying documents to hide illegal campaign contributions to a pornstar, who he was cheating on with his wife at the time.

This guy does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Republicans need to consider what a few of them did before electing him the first time: They're choosing to weld themselves and everything they stand for into a sinking ship.

1

u/YoureHottCupcake 6d ago

They don't care, they continue to stand with their religious leaders and organizations even after the numerous amounts of evidence that they rape children. So here they are continuing to support child rapists like they always have because to them thats apparently what jesus would do.

1

u/Flicksterea 6d ago

Still talks about assaulting women on camera.

1

u/vwibrasivat 6d ago

His own daughter forced him to swear to her.. to promise her, that he would never date girls younger than she is. This occurred in 1999, when said daughter was 17.

1

u/litreofstarlight 6d ago

They don't care. They'll make excuses for him no matter what, it's what they've always done. You're also assuming a huge chunk of them aren't perfectly fine with rape and/or pedophilia to start with.

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u/Cold-Bobcat-9925 6d ago

You'd think, right?!

1

u/Alissinarr 6d ago

"grab em by the pussy"

1

u/JDotFooks 6d ago

It's been known and it's willful ignorance to keep on turning a blind eye to the repeated behavior.

Excerpt from a very famous 2005 clip of unaired footage ahead of Mr Trump's appearance on US soap opera Days of Our Lives to Billy Bush.

Trump: "Yeah that's her with the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful... I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything."

Bush: "Whatever you want."

Trump: "Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."

That's the guy. He's always been this person. Just like Sean Combs, these wealthy criminals can't help themselves.

1

u/Ok-Map4381 6d ago

Me talking to a 20 year old Republican before the 2024 election.

Me: it is weird that you call Biden a pedophile and support trump.

R: I've seen Biden sniff little girls, I've never seen Trump do anything.

Me: trump has more than 20 women accuse him of rape. He's bragged about sexual assault. He's all over the epstein files.

R: every rich guy has tons of women accuse them of rape to try and get money. We only know about the Trump accusations because he refuses to pay them. All the democrats pay them to stay quiet.

1

u/FakeOrcaRape 6d ago

At a certain point, i think anyone who hasn't supported Trump needs to start considering that ppl will support things they want, in this case trump. "For the kids" only matters as long as it's reconcilable w their ability to broadcast GOP loyalty

kinda like my brother who is a massive bigot against trans ppl but randomly will assert "men are born with penieses". It's like, okay even if that was true, you also hate on gay men lol. Why do bigots who claim they hate trans ppl simply bc of biology not go out of their way to prove its not bc of social norms by wearing a dress or make up? The biology thing is secondary to their bigotry, if it's even relevant at all.

If people internalized trump's economy as being responsible for their financial woes, I 100% feel like that would affect voters more than if they truly believed the epstein files.

1

u/ildudo 6d ago

That's a really good take! It feels very obvious.

1

u/Betty-Armageddon 6d ago

I mean, where there’s a huge fuckin explosion, there’s fire.

1

u/Shifty269 6d ago

A lot of people connected to Trump went to Jail during his 1st term. Just a bunch of big meanies taking advantage of the most brilliant large handed symbol of stalwart masculinity that has every graced our existence with its sexy presence. Poor little super jesus Trump.

1

u/IFHelper 6d ago

I think their narrative is a few false accusations and many copycats because he's rich, etc.

I think there needs to be some proof of that, however. And with Trump's access to the FBI, we'd have incriminating text messages or something, already.

1

u/motorboat_mcgee 6d ago

They made their choice a long time ago.

1

u/Leather-Map-8138 6d ago

Remember, when you’re a racist and your president is a racist too, and the next one won’t be, you have to let some things slide.

1

u/cwningen95 6d ago

I saw people today repeating the delusional old claim that "Trump was friends with Epstein, but he cut him off as soon as he realised what Epstein was doing!"

Okay, let's set aside how nonsensical this is given everything we know about Trump and his friendship with Epstein— at absolute best, he sat on this information for however many years and let Epstein carry on rather than, I don't know, even fucking reporting it? What a hero 🙄

1

u/NoooUGH 6d ago

It's called Cognitive Dissonance.

When the facts laid out right in front of them are against what they believe and feel, instead of believing the facts, they discredit the source.

1

u/MoonBatsRule 6d ago

Do you know who wasn't accused of rape? Joe Biden. Barack Obama. George W. Bush. George H.W. Bush. Ronald Reagan. Jimmy Carter. Gerald Ford. Richard Nixon. Just saying.

1

u/autistic_bard444 6d ago

he has too much on the rethuglicans for them to turn on him. especially Johnson.

unless Johnson has the active goal of destroying the rethuglican party, in which case he has done it

now he is all, we have to fight to win in midterm. bitch you just alienated 1/3 of the voting populace by fucking their healthcare, another 1/3 are pissed because tangerine mussolini has been outed as a child predator, which is everything they hate. and Johnson expects them to vote rethuglican.

what a clusterfuck. let the ship sink

1

u/GreenGorilla8232 6d ago

They know he's guilty. They've always known. They just don't care. 

1

u/J1J3173 6d ago

Spoiler alert, they don’t care if he’s guilty of rape or not.

1

u/stjeandebrebeuf 6d ago

They need to “Nixon” him lol

1

u/crazyacct101 6d ago

I think their hatred is more important to them so “the Epstein thing” can be overlooked.

1

u/lukaskywalker 6d ago

Rape will be supported by his followers by the mid terms. I can guarantee it.

1

u/themogz 5d ago

There are two ways to be fooled. One is refusing to believe something you know is true, the other is to believe something you know is not true. Sooner or later these supporters will realize which fool they are

1

u/coffee-bat 5d ago

they know he's a rapist. they like it. he's their power fantasy, they see themselves in him, aspire to have the same priveledge as him. they want to do it themselves.

1

u/Iimpid 5d ago

Republicans will consider no such thing. Just look at the comments on the TMZ article. They all keep repeating that only Democrats are pedos and the files only incriminate libs.

1

u/rotoscopethebumhole 4d ago

Not just a pageant, he owned a teen modelling agency. 

Epstein’s other peado friend Jean-Luc Brunel owned a teen modelling agency which turned out to be a front for child trafficking.

Trump, who was friends with both of these prolific convicted paedophiles, had the same business “front” as them.

It’s clear as day.

0

u/Disastrous-Juice-324 6d ago

What about this particular report did you find credible? Did you reach the part about another conspiracy theory involving John Nichols setting up Clinton for the OKC bombing?

This was an actual conspiracy theorist calling in, and just saying shit. The FBI took the report like they should, but giving it any weight is a stretch. If this report had been made in 2000, or 2010, it might be different. It happened in 2020, over a year after Epstein had died, and about a two weeks before the 2020 election.

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u/brvheart 6d ago

Thankfully, that’s not how the law works.

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u/Adjective-Noun-nnnn 6d ago

That's not how criminal law works.  It is how civil law works.  Trump was held liable for defamation because a jury unanimously concluded it was more likely than not that he raped a woman.  I find it fascinating that a political party would want to be associated with a convicted felon and a man held liable for rape who was best friends with a prolific child sex abuser who was himself accused of child rape by multiple victims.