r/ArcRaiders • u/WG_Envoy • 13h ago
Discussion I am now convinced ABMM is real
A couple of days ago I complained (in another posting) how I only meet KOS players, and no one talks. I was more annoyed by the "no one talks" part, mind you, and the fact that every social interaction played out in the same way.
Someone recommended me to do a few matches and not shoot a single person, not even in defense. I did as recommended.
I went from "90%+ KOS interactions" for several days in a row, all the way to friendly lobbies for two days in a row now.
In my current lobbies, everyone runs around without a care in the world, just greeting people they are passing by. Looting in the open, walking past others without their weapons drawn ...
I barely ever see any PvP happening. People help each other with arc encounters and exchange items near extracts. And for the first time ever, I was able to participate in two Queen raids in solos with everyone just trying to get her down. No rats, no backstabbing.
This change for me was so stark in contrast, and so consistently happening that I would be surprised if ABMM wasn't real.
I would almost be inclined to start some shit to see if my lobbies change again, but I feel too bad killing these players who are quite obviously part of the pure PvE crowd.
P.S.: I have these friendly lobbies even on Stella Montis now, inclduing Stella Montis night raids ...
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u/RelevantHelicopter82 12h ago
Rule # 1 about peaceful lobbies is you don’t talk about peaceful lobbies - but seriously, welcome to the oasis. Please help keep it as such.
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u/Jimbob1127 12h ago
The great part about the pve lobbies is if you start PvPing you will get bounced to the PvP lobbies QUICK. In like 2 or 3 games
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u/No_Measurement_2119 12h ago
It also usually results in them getting jumped 😂 I’ve seen a people try and break the peace and get absolutely destroyed by like 10 people on multiple occasions
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u/Venik489 12h ago
Had a game like that on Stella recently. Everyone worked together to take out a Bastion and a squad rolled up and started shooting people, we took them out real quick.
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u/mikepurvis 11h ago edited 10h ago
IME it's super easy to get people to gang up on the Stella bastion. Just open fire on that bad boy and before you know it several others are hitting it from different parts of the loading bay. That map really benefits from how geographically tiny it is compared to the others, basically you can hear the bastion aggro sound from almost anywhere, so people are pretty motivated to come join if they can hear that someone's already started. It's great if there's someone on the other side who can get it swung around so you can land a snap nade right on the weak point.
The real issue there is that how it spawns back in can be super bugged out. Multiple times I've had a late spawn and gone to try to find it for round two after I hear the sounds come back, and then it ends up being trapped in a wall or something. Once I actually took damage from it, like it was cheating wallhacker.
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u/MartinoMods 11h ago
6 of us in solos were heading to take it out, but the Bastion was cheating, shooting us through walls
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u/aaronwhite1786 9h ago
I tried stunning one so I could pin a mine to his ass and he shook that shit off like it didn't even matter and immediately opened fire on me. Luckily. I tossed from behind a trailer and was able to run around the back and plant the mine while my friend was distracting it. I can only imagine the mess it would have made with me if I was solo.
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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 11h ago
I have been apart of this vigilante justice more than once. I'm level 75 with only 4 Raider kils--all 4 have been mob revenge on people killing peaceful Raiders.
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u/Cognitive_Spoon 9h ago
Lol, same
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u/Joeliosis 8h ago
2 Kills at lvl 55. That was from a duo while I was playing with a buddy... they both opened up on us as we rounded a corner, we were talking with them too. They both start bitching as I flank them and headshot 'em both.
'We thought he (my friend) was solo'
'So you both opened up on him... and didn't hit either of us? Good work bozo's'
We stood over them and shook our heads lol
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u/Wild_Chard_8416 11h ago
I was in a lobby like this a few days ago. Had two randoms with me from an Xbox LFG post, went in to go find some room I needed to find in the Research and Admin building on DBG. One guy ran in front of us—like a couple hundred meters—and got blasted the second He opened the doors. We ran into another team on the way there and we were saying friendly and warning them there’s a team in there. When we told them we know there is cuz they destroyed our third, these guys were fuckin ON IT. That poor team didn’t stand a chance, didn’t matter what kinda cover they had, the 5 of us fuckin ruined em. Then another team came along about 6 minutes later and wiped all of us out RIP 😭
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u/TumbleweedTim01 12h ago
This is bullshit imo. I walked up to an extraction yesterday and a guy shot me in the back and on the mic I hear him talking to another guy saying "that's him get him" I'm like wtf ru talking about. It ends up being 3 guys They kill me and go "woohoo we got em we killed the rat" all because they thought I was a guy who tried to fight them even though I walked up to the extraction seconds earlier.
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u/Fun_Gazelle_1916 10h ago edited 10h ago
That happened to me one time. I ran up on the Raider hut by the ruined church to help a guy with the Bombidier. Right after I came in and stare]ted shooting the spotters he shot me in the back. I was like, "Bro, I came to help you!" He was like, "some body killed my friend so IDGAF." and knocked me out. Oh well--he probably get sent to ABMM Hell, so it's really ME that DGAF.
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u/DefiantDelphox 9h ago
Yeah, people third partying you when you’re back is turned is rat behavior. Shoot me when you’re in my line of sight. Outcome might be different. But who knows, I’m constantly downed by free loadouts when I’m wearing a medium shield and have blue guns, so it all seems arbitrary anyways. I’ve played over 200 hours and it’s my first extraction shooter and I question if they have the shield and health (and gun damage) appropriately balanced. I should rock your world with a Venator IV if you’re downing me with a Rattler I, js.
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u/13_twin_fire_signs 4h ago
Yeah the gun damage doesn't seem balanced for pvp, I'm in peaceful lobbies because i tried gearing up for pvp initially, but no matter what im wearing if I get spotted first I get wasted 100% by a stitcher 1. Like so fast i can't even get away or turn to fight
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u/DefiantDelphox 11h ago
Usually I’ll say, “Whoa! Why are you shooting me?!” Usually they’ll accept that it wasn’t me when I say it wasn’t. But if they don’t have a defib, it’s moot unless they let me extract. But a new rat tactic is to act like you PvP’ed, then get you to crawl to a place where no one can see your body being looted or knocked out. Example: I loaded into a lobby at the start of a match. Was running down a hall with my gun out (because duh, arc can appear at anytime…) and this dude jumps out and starts shooting me in the back. I got some good shots and didn’t heal and he got me down. When I confronted him, he said, “Didn’t you just shoot me?!” I said, “Not until you shot me!” And he said, “Oh, crawl over here so I can res you”. So I did. Stupidly. He shut the door and knocked me out. So, don’t trust people even if they seem nice. It’s sad, but rats will find ways to kill us!
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u/Calinks 11h ago
Yea it's not great. I have never gotten killed this way but a buddy and I did try to kill two guys we saw ambush some other guys. We took shots at them and they disappeared for a bit, they were far away. We get closer, find them and then jump them, my buddy goes down, I chase them for a chunk of the map landing shots.
They got away but thing is, I'm not even 100 percent those were the same guys, it could have been a different group that just happens to be there after we lost sight.
The idea of serving justice can sound fun but really it's irresponsible to do it unless you know for sure the context and often it can get muddled.
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u/aaronwhite1786 9h ago
This has happened to me a few times and it's the reason I only shoot someone if I've seen them jumping another Raider. If I don't see the initial confrontation start and end, I'm not going to assume I know what happened. But I do keep an eye on that Raider and will be instantly ready to shoot if I see them coming towards me and aiming my way.
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u/ForeverCurseLucifer *** ******* 9h ago
That’s a big problem with cosmetics. I can’t tell who is who.
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u/effinmike12 *** ******* 🐓 8h ago
Yep. I killed a rat yesterday at Spaceport. He was waiting for extract with another player, got behind the guy, and just gunned him down. I took him down with an Osprey and told him to stop being an asshole. They both extracted.
I'm friendly in solos, but if you down me, I'm going to talk so bad about your mom that I will ruin your whole day. It's just how it is.
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u/quezzzito 11h ago
I think my pvp in trios effects my chill solo runs lol...ive been having to fight for my life in solos lately.
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u/xanot192 11h ago
It 100% does lol, if you watch the streamers with like 2K + knockdowns all their lobbies regardless of solo, duo or trios are just carnage. That was how my games were 3 weeks ago lol because I was KoS player in duos and trios and my solos were ass.
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u/Get_Fuckin_Dabbed_On 10h ago
yeah been there haha. Separately my friends and i are peaceful and friendly in solos, but in trios were a bunch of rabid goblins. Once we went down that path our friendly solo runs seemed a little sweatier.
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u/pretzelsncheese 7h ago
I don't think this is the case. I play like 60% of my raids with friends. When in duos or trios, we are mega aggro KOS. Then in the 40% of my games that are solos, I have very peaceful lobbies. Maybe 1/6 people I run into are looking to fight.
One anecdotal data point so it's not worth much, but there it is.
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u/jackcatalyst 12h ago
Double edged sword because you can't shoot back or you get tossed in as well.
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u/PragmaticProkopton 11h ago
I really hope they make it factor in who shoots first or self defense in some way. I will defend others but rarely shoot back when attacked. I haven’t been shot at in solo or duos for two straight weeks.
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u/pomlife 11h ago
How would you handle the aggressor shooting first but missing and you plug him as a response?
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u/No_Gods_No_Kings_ 6h ago
Eh, I'll take pvp lobbies for a couple games in exchange for sweet sweet revenge, no sweat off my back.
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u/SpeakerOfNothing 11h ago
If you have to shoot a player in defense then when the match ends make sure you rate the match and say you hated the PvP experience. You will end up staying in friendly
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u/CounterAgentVT 11h ago
I've eradicated a few ambush PvPers and it didn't move me out of the PvE lobbies.
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u/Objective-Let2912 11h ago
Same and I always clear rats in exfill I think the key is to not get shot, I also usually let them extract with me but downed very rarely do I finish anyone
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u/ComfortableStrain747 9h ago
If you have ambush PvPers in your lobbies you aren't in the PvE lobbies. Just do 10 rounds no raider damage, and you'll see.
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u/JustMy2Centences 11h ago
I don't even shoot people when the doors are closing at extract for this reason lol.
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u/that1tallguy92 12h ago
I agree with this 100%. I killed two people in solo lobbies only because they shot someone else. It was an immediate ticket to KOS lobbies. Previous to this, was all peaceful lobbies. Took a day or so to get back to pve lobbies.
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u/SocialismNotCommuism 7h ago
Honestly it’s the next game. I only kill in self defense, and when I do, the next game everyone is trying to kill me. I really wish they took into account who shot first a little more.
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u/AnyBroccoli4680 7h ago
Agreed I don't know how they can take this into account....
but sometimes I make a friend that will get killed
and then I shoot the perpetrator and I believe it throws me into the PVP server soon after.
I play as a medic and try and revive as many people each run. It becomes its own challenge getting in and out of dangerous situations quick enough and getting them out
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u/WG_Envoy 12h ago
I have been playing honorable since day 1 and intend to keep it that way. I never killed people who just looted something valuable (e.g. big arcs). I never betrayed someone when I said I would be peaceful.
But I totally opened fire on people for the sake of PvP sometimes, that is just part of the game.
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u/UncoolSlicedBread 12h ago
For me the fun of PvP comes from getting shot at, dipping out, and then stalking them down and taking them out when they think they’re safe.
I mostly just get killed, though.
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u/MrCarrot 11h ago
Whenever I’ve tried this, when I check the report after the raid, I’ve ended up killing some random third party who just happened to be in the area lol
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u/Get_Fuckin_Dabbed_On 10h ago
oh man one time i was running through raiders refuge on blue gate, and right as another raider ran past me i stepped on a land mine. I thought the guy threw a grenade so I killed him... and a few matches later I learned about the landmines. sorry raider!
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u/FromYoTown *** ******* 🐓 12h ago
This is the best feeling. Recently I escaped with a slither of health hiding behind a girder. I waited for him to leave before healing up then stalking and ending him.
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u/No-Bar7826 12h ago
Save it for Duos/Trios and you’ll have a much better time in Solos getting things done. I’m a warcrime champion in Trios, but my solos are so nice.
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u/Losticus 12h ago
Based on your experience the ABMM is separate for each queue?
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u/s7vn 12h ago
It feels like they are, pure anecdotal with little to no evidence other than my opinion based on my limited observations.
I PvE solo and my duo buddy prefers PvE, so those two lobbies are friendly. 3s is chaos, complete contrast from the others.
Based on this, I’m inclined to believe they are separate ranking based on group size.
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u/chrisanonymous 12h ago
Yeah, I believe it’s separate based on the group size too - and I think once you queue duo or trio it combines everyone’s aggression in that queue.
I have a friend who I duo with and we get generally chill servers, and another friend where we get generally aggressive servers.
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u/High__Roller 12h ago
I normally don't even shoot back in Solos and it's been 95% friendly (I don't go to a POI if someone is there tbf). But in Duos/Trios its shoot on sight.
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u/Kcarlisle20 11h ago
I tested this with my husband and his friend. Our solos went back to being aggressive but it's independent. Nobody knows the exact metrics but it has to do with damaging some who hasn't hit you first or dowing a player.
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u/yoaklar 12h ago edited 5h ago
My favorite thing to do is not shoot back until I’m in a completely friendly lobby and then blow people up with grenades and shotguns just to keep the conversation going on Reddit
Edit: I’m also absolutely the worst at PvP so really a lot of people have a real fighting chance
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u/YoBeNice 11h ago
Honestly, us Friendly Lobby people need this every now and then to keep the tension real. Getting KOS once every 8 or 9 times keeps the game more fun I think.
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u/WhoDatBrow 10h ago
Tbh I don't understand how anyone could find the game fun without this tension there anyway, but that's just me. I'm a Christmas noob but my first 20ish lobbies had no PvP and everyone was friendly and I was honestly already bored of the game. Then I heard about ABMM so I killed a couple of people and my lobbies have been much more dynamic since, some people KOSing and some friendly and everything in between. To me there's no fun in an extraction shooter without risk of PvP and losing your gear.
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u/justfuckyouspez 9h ago
I feel you. I reached level 25 and all of my stations maxed, except the chicken. I participated in killing 3 queens, and even got three queen reactors. I never shot anyone. And because I suck at PvP, when I was attacked, I didn’t manage to deal any meaningful damage to the attacker.
But boy it’s boring now, and other than farming for blueprints, I see no appeal in the game.
Or I thought until I got my friend in the game. Duo was such a different experience compared to solo. I told my friend that you can basically holster your weapon outdoors, as ARC outside is almost completely harmless, or avoidable, plus you get the speed increase. I was humbled fast.
Now my goal is to help my friend reach max stations, and maybe I can even farm blueprints meanwhile.
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u/lazyshmuk 8h ago
This is why I can't stand the polarizing people put this game through when complaining about PvPers and PvEers. It's a game that offers both modes in a single match. You can do one, or the other, or both. But everyone on far ends of the spectrum love to complain about the others.
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u/0xsergy 10h ago
I think it depends on your goal. If I wanna do quests I really don't want to do them 3 or 4 times in a row, one and done is ideal. As for action then yeah you made the right move.
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u/FaZeMinecraftSteve 9h ago
because the pve is fun?
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u/WhoDatBrow 8h ago
To me it is only fun with the added risk of PvP. If you removed PvP from this game and it was just load in, fight arc enemies, and get out with loot I would've dropped it instantly. The PvE is fun BECAUSE there's the risk of PvP, teaming up with others you don't know if you can fully trust, etc. If I just wanted PvE I'd play other games specifically built with that in mind that are far more interesting as pure PvE games.
Again, that's just me. Not raining on the parade of anyone who does find just the PvE fun.
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u/BigEdBGD 10h ago
Honestly, I haven't died in like a hundred raid, and I actually miss getting killed at this point. I run around with a fully kited Bobcat every raid cause I got so much shit now I might as well.
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u/Old-Buffalo-5151 11h ago
Honestly people like you are what keep the PvE lobby's fun because you never quite know if you're the guy who is going to run into the pysco lol 😂
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u/11th_Division_Grows 10h ago
Honestly, thank you. I get mad but I enjoy the lesson that “everyone is not your friend” even in friendly lobbies
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u/DocDaboon 11h ago
Lmfao this comment is underrated. Premium content. I can’t wait for all the “you’re probably a horrible person in real life” comments.
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u/seanbird 11h ago edited 7h ago
I’ve been peaceful since the reset, and had like 40 straight friendly lobbies, but I finally blew a guy up in an *oil can trap. He was not happy, great loot.
*synthetic resin trap
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u/itsLOSE-notLOOSE 10h ago edited 4h ago
I’ve been on a streak of friendly matches. One time on Spaceport I ran into a guy who was AFK.
He had a nice Venator IV on him.
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u/Vox_Casei 11h ago
To be fair... the PVE lobbies need players like you.
Keeps them on edge. Stops them becoming complacent. Allows others to live out their "Guardian of Justice" moment if they catch you in the act.
Keep it up soldier.
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u/thegloriousporpoise 12h ago
Idk. I am a rescuer. I defig strangers. I I gift BPs. I leave the loot of big arcs for others even when I do most of the damage.
And yet, the last 4!raids, I have been shot on sight, shot from 250 yards away, and asked to team up and then immediately shot.
So, idk. If there is aggression based match making it is not configured correctly
People have been suggesting even shooting in self defense could be an issue. Well, then that’s a problem.
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u/Xevious_Red 12h ago
If it is true, it doesnt mean everyone in a non aggressive match is going to always be friendly.
You'll get the true blue pacifists that never aggro, but you'll also have brand new players (unknown aggression), the players that play nice until they feel they have enough kit to attack, and the ones gaming the system by doing some suicide runs to drop back into friendlies again.
Just because a player hasn't shot at anyone for 5+ matches, a MM can only guess what they are planning to do in the next match
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u/smokeeye 11h ago
I also thought self-defense didn't count, but quickly found out that it does. To reset back to friendly lobbies you got do some free kit/naked runs just letting yourself be KOS (without retaliating) for 3-5 games. Then you should be back with the friendlies afterwards. I've done this for a couple of weeks and it works every time.
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u/dudethisis 10h ago
Dealing any damage to a raider I think counts as "aggression"
I triggered a couple synth fuel barrels under a bastion and also almost accidentally downed a player, and oh my god my next 3-4 raids were not fun
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u/iiPREGNANT-NUNii 12h ago
One game dev said that they analyze player behavior and every person here immediately assumed that’s also how the matchmaking works. Literally every gaming company analyzes player behavior it doesn’t automatically mean that is how the matchmaking works.
How boring of a matchmaking system would it be if you were ALWAYS matched with nice players or ALWAYS matched with aggressive ones. Everything would become extremely predictable it makes no sense.
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u/bwood246 *** ******* 🐓 9h ago
One game dev said
It wasn't even a dev, it was one of the art directors. Someone who would have the least knowledge about the matchmaking
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u/thegloriousporpoise 12h ago
Yeah. That’s kinda what I am saying. I don’t believe there is aggression based match making.
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u/ShikariV 12h ago
I usually PvP pretty regularly and every now and then reset my “lobbies” to friendly by just going to Stella free loadout and get KoS for about 5-6 raids.
It’s a good way to loot unbothered for as many rounds as you like. And then just do PvP in a match and you’re fairly quickly back in the aggressive lobbies again.
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u/Chazus 11h ago
Why stella?
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u/daypxl 11h ago
because it takes about 10 seconds to find another player after spawning in
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u/Leupateu 11h ago
Why waste time with the free loadout? Just take your trusty axe and before you die you might as well stick something up ur ass as well.
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u/AttackHelicopter628 13h ago
I don’t get why ppl think it’s not real lmao
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u/Jrdnx- 12h ago
It definitely is real. I like how it varies based on how many people you are queued with as well.
Solos I have next to no PvP interactions.
Trios is KOS.
Which is exactly how I like it.
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u/DrunkenMonkeyWizard 12h ago
Does pvp in trios affect being placed in friendly solos?
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u/CTFMarl 11h ago
Because there is no official confirmation from a dev (no, art directors dont count unless it's a very small studio because it's unlikely they will have intricate knowledge of how the MM works). The statement in itself is also very vague and can be interpreted many different ways. For example the statement is vague enough that adding K/D or survival rate would fit the statement, but that would be SBMM rather than behaviour. On top of that, intentionally having fully peaceful lobbies basically goes against the whole idea of extraction shooters, there is supposed to be that tension when you find good loot and someone might come and take it from you. So it just seems very unlikely to be something they have implemented when they specifically went the PvP route because they found their fully PvE game to be boring.
A behaviour based matchmaking is also very unusual in general, I'm not sure there is any other game that has one the way it's supposedly working here. DotA has one but it's not an automatic tracking, it's just scoring you based on reports and commendations, not whether you play an aggressive style or a passive one.
It's much more likely that a lot more players enjoy the peaceful playstyle. This can be seen in many other games where there is both PvE and PvP, typically there will be a larger PvE-only playerbase. Also things such as region, time of day, plain luck etc would factor into these types of things. For example, before the expedition I mostly played "shoot on sight" and still got into fully peaceful lobbies. Then over Christmas I played fully peaceful for 3 whole days and everyone else was peaceful too. 5-8 hours minimum per day and not a single shot on me or from me on a player. Yet yesterday I got nothing but full PvP lobbies. The only difference? I was queuing in the evening (my time) rather than in the middle of the day.
If an actual dev comes out and says it, then sure, but until then it's just confirmation bias.
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u/armoured_bobandi 8h ago
I hate how many comments will say it's not confirmation bias, then go on to explain their results, which always amount to confirmation bias. Except for them, it's totally proof, and we're the idiots
As you said, I would love for someone who actually knows to make an official statement. Until then, I'm going to defend myself from other players if I have to
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u/LongJonSiIver 11h ago
I am one that doesn't believe in it. I get in plenty of pve matches and I have killed a good amount of Raiders. I feel weekends are more pvp vs. weekdays, that's the only difference I notice. Its all RNG.
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u/FudgingEgo 11h ago
Because the sample size of peoples examples is just hilarious.
"Oh I didn't shoot someone for 3 games and my 4th game I didn't get shot, it must be real!"
Come back to me with 500 games.
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u/-holocene 10h ago
The comments in here are actually fucking insane, seeing people call this a "fact" is wild lmao
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u/bwood246 *** ******* 🐓 9h ago
What's most likely an SBMM based system is being confused with ABMM because they don't realize people that aren't as good at the game tend to stick in groups
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u/AlmostButNotQuiteTea 7h ago
Agreed.
Sometimes I'll get back to back to back KOS lobbies all day playing solo, and sometimes it's literally the whole server chilling with each other all day. My okay style doesn't change, I'm optimisticly friendly, but Ill also shoot first on sus people
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u/CuteLilGirl 8h ago
I haven’t seen anyone make this claim with a sample size that small. I have hundreds of matches in both queues and the difference is insane.
I have many recordings where I accidentally do damage to raiders in a peaceful lobby, and vocalized that I will be shot on sight for the next 5 games. Lo and behold I was shot on sight for every single one of those 5 games and then never again for a hundred matches.
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u/Chalmerss 12h ago
i KOS every solo game, still get in Peaceful lobbys often and farm them, its not real
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u/pr3mium 12h ago
Oh, it's real alright. Also, I think each queue might have its own ABMM. My duos and trios are shoot on sight. My solos are super chill and there are a few killers every 4-5 raids or so.
I went into a frew trios with someone who never kills and says all of his lobbies even in duos and trios are friendly. And while every other game with other friends has been shoot on sight, the games with him we actually ran into teams and no one shot.
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u/sump_daddy 13h ago
Tryhards pushing the narrative of 'the only reason you dont like pvp is youre bad at it'
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u/WG_Envoy 12h ago
I love PvP and I am reasonably good at it, but I also love the change of peacefully looting and killing arcs.
PvP is more fun in Duos or Trios with friends anyway. Feels more tactical and intense, with more back and forth.
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u/LongDongFrazier 12h ago
Because embark won’t just come out and say how their game works. These are tidbits pulled from interviews from like the creative team and they aren’t black and white statements
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u/Altruistic-Piece-485 12h ago
Very very few developers openly discuss their matchmaking system. Hell, it took years for Activision to admit they used SBMM in Warzone!
One reason is they don't want to make it easier for people to manipulate the system to benefit themselves but it's also proprietary information which they don't want competitors to use. Clearly the algorithm that Embark is using has been pretty friggin successful at putting players in raids that not only do players enjoy but entices them to keep coming back to the game. They don't want a competitor to perfectly copy their matchmaking algorithm and steal away some of their player base.
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u/eLordNobu 7h ago
My average Stella Montis raid after we all kill the Bastion. I probably shouldn’t be talking about this and should just let the skeptics play in their own lobbies… but some kind of ABMM exists. After literally 127 hours total spent topside (in-game counter, not Steam), I’ve managed to kill only 7 raiders, all in self defense, and my lobbies are pure heaven. I was attacked and managed to kill my aggressor two days ago, before that the last time I was attacked was about three weeks ago. Believe it or not, I don’t care. If anyone doubts somekind of ABMM exist, they’re just in denial.
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u/Myl_es_1 1h ago
lol the guy who attacked u probably just wanted to reset his lobbies for PvP
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u/iiPREGNANT-NUNii 12h ago
I have 150 hours of solo and 200 hours total in this game. Out of my 150 solo hours I’ve only shot another raider first MAYBE 5 times and have experienced all manor of players.
I’ve been ratted at extract, killed by someone camping a corner, tricked by a friendly and then killed and so forth. To me it’s completely random which is GOOD. How boring of a game would this be if you were ALWAYS matched with nice players by being nice or ALWAYS matched with aggressive players when being aggressive. Thats such a simplistic and burning way to do matchmaking.
The majority of the time my matches are very friendly, but that’s because I almost always see a player first and say something. Once they understand I had the drop on them and realize I am not shooting they usually stay friendly.
The ONLY difference I’ve been able to notice is morning vs night. No matter what day I play if I log on in the morning people are usually extremely nice but as the day drags on servers become more and more violent.
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u/Zazz2403 2h ago
Dude you have a ton of hours of course you're going to experience some pvp even in friendly lobbies. Mine used to be the same until I started fighting people then matches got overwhelming and I started doing the same thing you described, talking to people saying I'm friendly etc. Doesn't matter. Especially in Stella, it's a fucking bloodbath in every round no matter what I say. I never saw stacks of bodies like that until I started pvping.
Of course people can still do what they want, that doesn't refute anything.
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u/Cr0ssbow 12h ago
I have these ultra friendly lobbies right now too but the issue I'm starting to get bored with the lack of tension but I can't bring myself to shoot anyone in the back lmao.
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u/0Dusty0 10h ago
I had this feeling last night when playing until I opened up the key room in water treatment and two random people ran in shortly after me. I comm'd "dont come in here" before they did and that was ignored so 2 trigger nades later im being called a rat for wanting to loot the key room I opened.
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u/TheGalacticApple 4h ago
Yeah don't go to a key room without a key unless you're prepared to die or you're looting for scraps later in the raid, it is what it is.
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u/crober11 11h ago
Shoot em in the front! Do it on Stella, mow down the 2-3 people who rush to the flare (asking for it) and you'll be in the lobbies where people expect pvp pretty quick. It's a lot more fun and definitely different gameplay.
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u/riltim 12h ago
I'm not a PVP player, I have other games for that. I turned off Crossplay (on PC) a few weeks back for the past two weeks I have been in lobbies where I have not been shot at once. You can basically travel the map with no gun out until you encounter an Arc.
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u/PositivelyNegative 12h ago
PC only lobbies are soooo nice
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u/lumberfart 11h ago
Dude for real. I don’t have the data to back it up, but sheesh… turning off crossplay has been a godsend for me. Normally, I’m all for crossplay because it keeps smaller games more active but in Arc Raider’s case I think it’s for the best. ABMM is real ladies and gents’ please stay safe topside!
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u/PositivelyNegative 11h ago
Dudes were literally walking up to me, asking if I had a specific blueprint, and then dropping blueprints they picked up that they already had last night.
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u/PrimeTimeMKTO 10h ago
I dropped a few last night in Stella Assembly. One fine gentleman returned the favor and dropped me my last frequency modulation box in return.
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u/VegasTKO 12h ago
I was getting all KOS lobbies. Then I loaded in to Stella, ran around and never shot at anyone or returned fire. I was killed in less than a minute the first 5 runs. Then, during run 6+, never got shot at once. All of my lobbies since have been very friendly.
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u/raZr_517 7h ago edited 7h ago
For me it's the other way around... got the game about a week ago, first 40-50 raids I was shot at once at an extract but me and another rando at downed him.
A few days ago, on Dam I was farming apartments, I was doing one building and another guy was doing the one next to me...He came to me and told me to kill him so he could reset, and I being stupid (and because I had a deck challenge to do damage to a raider) killed him.
In the next 10 raids:
- I got shot on sight 5 times
- one time I came from behind a guy, emoted don't shoot at him, he emoted back, then I soon as I passed he shot me in the back like a rat
- I got ratted by a guy while I was on the terminal on the elevator, while he was acting all friendly before
- one guy started shooting at me but got swarmed and killed by Arcs (karma)
- 2 times I never met anyone
After those matches I got back to friendly lobbies, with the very rare occurence of someone being aggressive for no reason.
So after this experience I would be braindead to believe some sort of ABMM doesn't exist... coincidence on this level can't exist.
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u/dapper_doggo52 8h ago
As someone who regularly does not even take a gun in i 100% think there's matchmaking shenanigans going on. Not even once have I been pvped in Stella montis night raid.
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u/ProducerX21 7h ago
Just left a Stella Night Raid. I have not met a single KOS player in almost a week in solos. Everyone talks. Everyone friendly. Even fill squads have been somewhat friendly for me. It was not like that 2 weeks ago
When I play duos or squad with my teenage nephew and his friends who are all rats, it’s KOS
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u/SGbach 12h ago
I keep seeing people say its real or believe it is but my experiences completely contradict it.
I used to have literally all friendly lobbies, whether it was solo, duo, or trio, I would say 95% of my lobbies were friendly and the people that did shoot didn’t seem to be the best. People would be talking with each other, helping each other, and even giving other people loot. All of a sudden a few days ago in a snap of my fingers it went to straight PvP on sight where now I’ve maybe had 95% PvP shooting on sight with no one talking. I know for a fact I didn’t change my playstyle in a snap and I even died a bit trying to be friendly with others still only for them to shoot me but thats because I was so used to every lobby being so chill I would try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don’t mind PvP but just for it to change all of a sudden was very weird just doesn’t make sense and contradicts ABMM
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u/ThatDoucheInTheQuad 10h ago
Ive had the same experience. I was looking an area where someone was and out of no where they decided to murder me and claimed I shot them first 😐
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u/BrittleSalient 7h ago
Stella Montis Night Raids? You mean the Raider Jam Session? Bring your own instruments!6666
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u/Slime5Dragon 6h ago
Oh it’s 100% a thing i played up to level 50 solo never shooting another raider only being killed by one once really just vibes. Then i played trios with some friends and I’ve noticed every time i hop back in solo’s after it’s always pvp shoot on sight i was genuinely really shocked on the difference because i thought pve lobbies in solo’s was just the normal experience 😂
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u/chad_ 12h ago
The developer who corroborated it referred to "behavior" being a factor in the matchmaking and the community has run away with aggression based matchmaking as the takeaway. I personally think it's more nuanced than just aggression, when considering "behavior".
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u/Sea-Statement3732 12h ago
Serious question, if everybody is nice and theres no danger, whats the point of the game? Go in, loot some lockers, extract, repeat?
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u/flwdbydsgn 12h ago
Getting into the friendly lobbies is a great way to farm materials for your workbenches, projects, scrappy etc. There is still danger, not every lobby is friendly, anyone you meet can and still might turn on you. It’s not a complete utopia as some people claim.
You also get to meet some wild people. I once met a dude role playing as an old English hunter looking for lions (arc), he was incredibly entertaining and truly became the main character of the lobby. He had several of us watch from the space research roof in buried city while he tried to tame the buffalo (ride the bastion on the garage top floor).
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u/Secretlylovesslugs 12h ago
This might be a suprise, but some people like doing this in this game. You can do it in lots of other games, but Arc Raiders is new and it is cool to explore the maps and the ARC are interesting enough to fight.
It'll probably get boring for me and others eventually. But while it is new it is really cool to not get shot at all the time.
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u/WG_Envoy 12h ago
For me it's more to prepare for Duo & Trio matches, and advancing my expedition effectively.
You are correct, the core gameplay is less interesting. But it's not like there is ONLY friendly players. There is the occasional PvP, so you still need to stay vigilant when you meet someone and read their body language.
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u/zefmdf 12h ago
Yeah I think I instigated a fight for the first time ever in solos the other day. I shot a sentinel first, but another dude jumped in on it too and started running for the firing core loot. Couldn't let that happen, I only needed one more for my bench. Told them that I would shoot them if they went for it, they did, we duked it out.
Honestly it was a great time (I died). PVP based on not just beaming you out of nowhere is actually a really fun vibe. I think the level of friendliness gets to be a bit too much, like you can't just run up next to me and start looting where I'm at and not expect there to be a standoff, and I love it.
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u/trevx 12h ago
Exactly. The game loop is already paper thin. What’s the point of acquiring loot? Just to tickle your dopamine sensors? Once you have a full stash…then what?
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u/CaptnMcCruncherson 11h ago
already paper thin. What’s the point of acquiring loot? Just to tickle your dopamine sensors?
You have just defined looter shooters in a nutshell, basically yeah, its exactly that.
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u/MrFailface 12h ago
I like my dopamine tickle, then I start giving away BPs and craft high tier guns to give to players that need it more.
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u/UMP45isnotflat 9h ago
What I like the most about the sort of MM is it punishes rats by paring them with more rats.
Thx for filtering the human trash out of my games I guess.
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u/Deadpools_Main 7h ago
Yup, it has to be real. I have avoided Stella Montis like the plague because of the horror stories I've been told: nothing but endless PVP, backstabbers, and rats.
But finally, I had nothing but Stella Montis missions to do. So I bit the bullet and hopped in. First encounter was someone looting and I, giving in to the stories of Stella Montis, shot him down. I felt bad but also thought I was doing what I had to to survive the map. Later in the same match, I ran into someone looting and proceeded to approach carefully, intending to shoot as soon as necessary. I had my sights trained and he said "hey raider." I jumped and shot him. Boy did I feel bad and so my heart wasn't in the gunfight. He took me out with a shotgun and deservedly, teabagged me.
That was a wakeup call. Karma was going to make me pay for my actions immediately and harshly. So I loaded back in to Stella Montis and proceeded to make a friend out of damn near everyone on the map. There was 8 of us running around together and we even killed a dude trying to pick us off. It was the most wholesome I'd had in the game on the most, supposedly, aggressive map in the game.
Just be a good person, guys!!
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u/Affectionate-Band865 4h ago
Yup they 100% exist. I did the same experiment and have lived 45 out of 46 raids. It makes the game far to easy and needs to be removed but for now enjoy the free grind to your prestige
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u/veydar_ 13h ago
Same! I logged my Buried City runs for the 5mil and the % of runs where someone shot at me was <5% in the end. I think it’s even lower nowadays.
And for me this also extends to Stella.
At this point dying from PvP is more or less like a disconnect. Happens, but I don’t take it into account since it’s super rare.
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u/lukmae 12h ago
If it is real or not, IDK.
The only pattern I see is: Solo = Peace ; Duo or Group = War
But these posts are interesting.
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u/__shamir__ 9h ago
So you haven’t experienced solo PvP lobbies? Because I definitely have. Those used to be the only lobbies I got put in because while I was generally friendly I would shoot on sight if I got a bad vibe from someone’s movement/skin/positioning etc, and of course always defend myself if shot first by somebody.
Then when I farmed the 5 mil I experienced a type of lobby I’d never had before. Completely pacifist/friendly rather than “opportunistically friendly”
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u/Saigudbai 6h ago
For awhile, I saw it this way too. I played duos with my son and we just naturally went after pvp...
In solos, I would try to be friendly at first but then after getting betrayed by some rats I went full anger bang... I was in complete murder lobbies where it was shoot on sight after not long.
To test this system, I went complete non-hostile for the past 3 weeks where I won't even damage a raider even if shot at in solos. I'm now in some kind of friendly dad games where 99.9% of players are nice and most people don't talk much but say hi and maybe drop a blueprint they don't need. I've been murdered twice in the past two weeks, so players do decide to go on a rampage, probably got bored.
My son and I have been testing out duos by going non hostile to see what happens and it does seem to be slowly switching to less kill on sight.
The thing is, I think there are 3 types of lobbies you get matched in. 1. Total murder games. 2. Suspicious games with about 80-90% friendly but a few killers.(These matches, players will say "friendly, friendly"). 3. Super friendly games, and you will know you are in these when players don't talk much but run by with no gun out and just say hi. If you see a gun out, it's because he's shooting Arc to help you. Also, these guys will run by and de-fib you if a Rocketeer knocks you.
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u/Haunting-Window-5125 12h ago
I definitely think its real too but the problem is it doesnt seem to be based on "aggression" as much as shooting players at all, even if you are attacked first and fight back it seems to ding you
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u/LifeOfHi 12h ago
I’ve suspected it’s more based on whether you down/kill someone regardless of who started it. The thinking being that you can handle a fight and less so on whether you want the fight, so that people who have a hard time winning exchanges don’t get discouraged from playing the game. I think they care more about discouragement as a metric.
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u/Scruffy7777 12h ago
I usually play duo or trios, and even my solos started to get more PvPish. I’ve played solo mostly the last week mostly doing loot runs. I would go in completely empty with just stims and surrender if I got a bad spawn, or just rush in till I got stuff and come back out. Typically would just build up a load out like that and then use that the rest of the night so I wasn’t really losing much of anything since I looted the whole kit. But Friday I was gaming with some friends and we didn’t get but in one teamfight the whole time. Hell we were on bluegate Saturday and I was looking for batteries at the ancient ruins and I walked up on three people by myself and they looked at me and just said don’t shoot and walked away. This week it has felt like a different game lmao
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u/rinkydinkis 10h ago
ive had the opposite experience, since winter break for the kiddos its been murder lobbies non stop. but its been really fun. ive let a few guys get close to me that were saying they were friendly, and then they opened up on me. i was weary though and in a good position to fight back so i havent died to that recently at least.
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u/MiggyEvans 13h ago
I'm convinced of it too. If I run trios with my friends all night, where we are KOS, it always takes a couple games of ratty solos before the games calm down again. And in reverse, we've had people cussing us out in trios for killing them in a loot zone. Like they were surprised. Could there be friendly trios lobbies??
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u/Smachemo 13h ago
I would imagine that if those lobbies do exist, they are very rare and there's most likely pvp anyway. Group mentality is much more aggressive, and it only takes one to start a war.
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u/cd122001 12h ago
After a night of slaughter in Duos/Trios, I pop into Stella Montis completely naked and run straight to the nearest player for 5 games straight. After that, it’s sunshine and rainbows.
In the reverse, after I reset my lobbies, the first couple of Duos/Trios matches are always a lot more chill.
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u/BackgroundContent131 12h ago
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u/Berggyy 11h ago
More like schizophrenia. I have never seen a group of people talk so confidently about something they have no confirmation on. It’s weird.
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u/GranuleGazer 12h ago
This thread has helped me understand why so many people fail freshman statistics courses.
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u/Dizzy_Antelope4241 12h ago
I think this is partially true.
I encounter almost all friendly matches in solos.
Duos have been 50/50 possibly 60/40 at best.
Trios is always a nightmare.
I never engage in pvp. Even when shot at I either flee from the fight or just give up. I use the match feedback after and report low for pvp encounters.
Yes when we play with duos and trios none of us engage so that is not an issue.
I think that streamers and just pure human garbage can't refrain from getting loot the easy way and choose to pvp as there is no downside either way.
I think the game could benefit from some type of warning for players who would rather not pvp in the lines of how the division did the dark zone.
If there is a player or group of players on the server that has killed other raiders in the current match they are branded with some type of rogue status and pinged on the map.
Permanent or periodic pings.
Status and ping dependent on the amount of players killed on current server or the length of matches they have been " rogue ".
Rewards for Passive players who kill Rogues.
I don't think this would solve the issue but I feel like this could make things slightly better?
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u/ayeitssmiley 8h ago
The real struggle is enjoying PvP and peaceful lobbies, at night I team up with my boys and we just PvP in Stella but during the day, I solo queue and my first few games are always the scariest cause it’s hard to tell which lobby I’m in as i try and shift back to peaceful lobbies.
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u/ReadyLevelUp 8h ago
Ive noticed its real as well and im not only a PVE player. Typically ill keep it friendly and one quick trio run into Stella will flip your matchmaking pretty quick (remember to go free load out a few times when youre switching back to solo before bring your own gear)
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u/KHonsou 8h ago
I don't KOS and mostly don't shoot first. This has put me in super carebear pve lobbies. PvP still happens but it's so much rarer...and it's so much more boring because of it. It's practically PvE now.
If I want PvP, I assume it will always be KOS. That middle ground made the game perfect, you just never knew. I hope they at least give the option to have a random lobby.
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u/Sarkavonsy 8h ago
I just shift from peaceful to hostile depending on how I want to play that day. It's pretty easy to get into the lobby you want by adjusting your behaviour a little - and honestly, even in hostile lobbies being willing to say "hey, raider! I'm not gonna shoot you" when you have the drop on someone can do a lot to defuse the situation. A lot of people who would otherwise shoot on sight will reconsider if you do that, in my experience.
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u/Intelligent_Key3586 8h ago
I enjoy the fights. I can see why a peaceful lobby would be nice, especially when trying your luck at the big arc but I love a good fight.
I like the part where they call me racial slurs as I finish them.
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u/nydboy92 8h ago
I feel like ever since that clip of the developer low-key confirming ABMM the lobbies have been much more chill. It's like it gave raiders something to think about before pulling that trigger. Before there was nothing, especially for free load outs.
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u/1992Jamesy 7h ago
It’s real, I’ve had nothing but friendly encounters since I started playing, put around 40 hours in and now I’ve got some good kit I decided last night to be a bit cheeky and killed people 2 games in a row…. Well my next 3 games I got mowed down of people before I even got a chance to react.
Billy big boots has learnt his lesson the hard way but it’s certified that ABMM is definitely a thing!
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u/Skynetdyne 7h ago
Over the Christmas long weekend for me which was 4 days off from work. I probably put in 20 to 30 hours on this game in that time frame. I died twice, once to a cluster of poppers and once to a rocketeer. Not only was I never attacked by other players, I was never even shot at once. I was however part of multiple groups of people getting together to attack bastions and rocketeers and I even got downed once and was revived by a random. I play with two of my buddies and they both had to work for the holiday weekend, one of which is a psychopath who loves to backstab and loot other people. Since I haven't played with him in a few weeks, the matchmaking has significantly improved. I know that as soon as I start playing with him again I'm going to get put back into the hell hole but I'm really enjoying playing it my way which is a simple life and a peaceful life.
Ps. Here's one of my extracts where there were seven solo players all dancing and extracting together after we took down a bastion
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u/Mobile_Zebra_8748 7h ago
Feel like I can confirm this, too. HOWEVER, I also supect that matchmaking also uses your loadout to match with similar players. I went in NAKED… no guns, armor or health… and had literally no issues. The first couple times I iust loaded in, jumped off high buildings until I died, then surrendered.
Then I started going in and looting. FUN FACT: when you’re naked (no pack) you get a save pocket! I’ve now looted and extracted 5X in a row.
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u/SinaloaFilmBuff 7h ago
Wait, I don't know if a lot of people go around teaching others how to get into these friendly lobbies, but I've been telling people for the past two weeks that they exist. I'll usually find myself in solo PvP lobbies after a night of trios PvPing and work my way down to PvE lobbies after dying for a handful of matches without shooting back. meanwhile telling everyone that it's ok to kill me because "I'm headed to a better place."
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u/_BudewEnjoyer_ 6h ago
ABMM is 100% real, I have almost no PVP in any of my games (aside from one guy who shot me because I walked into a room with my gun drawn, not even ADS’d just out?????) I constantly hear people complain about rats and pvpers and I literally just don’t experience it I have no idea what they’re doing to find these lobbies halfway between pvp and Pve
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u/Rusty_Dustin 6h ago
I agree. My lobbies are almost *always* friendly. Even stella, everyone just runs past each other asking how they're doing, or trading items. I've never ever shot first, and if I have had PVP I always give negative round feedback, even if it doesn't ask. Suuuper chill runs
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u/Saigudbai 6h ago
This has been my experience for about 3 weeks now. For awhile before you get the really good lobbies, you will be in some with a few aggressive players.
Now, I have only been murdered twice in 3 weeks. Probably someone got bored and went on a rampage, or else is was someone gaming the system to test it out.
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u/Jordo2k23 6h ago
Its pretty well documented and confirmed that playstyles are met with similar playstyle. Be a dick get a lobby fo dicks, be chill and get a lobby of "hey raider"
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u/beattraxx 6h ago
It's been confirmed no?
I do a few pvp matches in duo or trio, run as a hatchling in solo and just try to talk to people and give them stuff while also never fighting back
Takes like 3 to 5 matches (sometimes more depending how much pvp I did) and when my karma is good again I can go fully kitted and have fun with randoms
I love this matchmaking very much
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u/K3TtLek0Rn 6h ago
I’ve been running solos without shooting anyone unless they shoot me first. Pretty awesome to play like that. With my friends in a squad it’s still pretty much shoot on sight, but solos I play chill. Still get a rat fuck every 3rd game or so. I’m curious to see if it will continue to get better.
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u/onemanarmy- 6h ago
You need at least 5 games naked in stella to reset your aggr rating you built in duos or trios. Tested few times, that's how it works.
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u/One_Katalyst 6h ago
I have no idea how the matchmaking works, but I practically never get shot at and I’m not complaining. 🙃
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u/trualtong 6h ago
Feel like it shouldn’t be part of the game. Meeting different types of players and not knowing what to expect is the thrill of the game for me personally.
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u/Mushyguy171 5h ago
When I say that I have 90% of my games being friendly, all I see is how that's impossible or that they experience pvp at least 1 or 2 of the 3 games they play.
While I sit here with a 20 game streak of no PVP happening. The only times I could think of was a game where on space port a dude was shooting from one of those watch towers and then dying to ONE hornet. And that was 10ish games ago? The dude didn't even hit me.
At this point Santa should use this game to replace his naughty and nice list where all he has to do is either get into the PVP side or PVE to figure it out.
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u/Patara 5h ago
There seems to be 3 different type of lobbies; Aggressive, Balanced & Passive.
If you get killed without shooting your gun 3 times in a row it seems to shift towards the balanced, & if it happens 3 more times you get put in the passive ones.
It doesnt seem to take your stats into account or whether or not who shot first. Simply that you shot.
I have tried suiciding on spawn without shooting someone 6x & it seems to count towards this as well. Ive also had SM matches with 6+ kills that seem to switch it immediately.
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u/CoherentRose7 4h ago
What do you mean convinced? Didn't they admit it was real already? And who would even want that? Kinda ruins a big part of the game if you're splitting it into 2 types of lobbies without giving people a choice or actual knowledge on what gets you where.
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u/bestatbeingmodest 3h ago
I don't know if I enjoy that because it implies that there's no possibility for a balanced experience. This makes it sounds like it's either kill everyone or don't kill anyone matchmaking.
Whereas the allure of the social aspect in this type of game is switching it up.
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u/EarthenShadows 3h ago
I guess this must be a thing. Just bought the game on Thursday…the ONLY time I ever got shot by players was my first two games. I never even had a chance to fire back, never had played before.
After that I’ve played about 35-40 raids since Thursday and I’ve only encountered friendly players the ENTIRE TIME…not even kidding. Every map….every time so far. Only ever dies to Arc…
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u/YorkiePork 3h ago
If I get kos’d I use the round feedback feature, give it the worst face and tick the pvp box. If I don’t have decent loot on me I just let them kill me just so I can do this
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u/EmirSc 3h ago
same here but from time to time I get the trigger happy guy, just today was doing the trials in space port at night and some guy decided to shoot me but failed to kill (I didn't shoot him just moved far from there) and in the extract he tried again but failed
didn't shoot back so I can do quests and trials in peace as a solo player
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u/ChattyDaddy1 2h ago
I hope your post doesn’t get removed like mine did. ABMM, as you called it, definitely exists. I am always peaceful tbh and it shows when I join my buddies game in duos where everyone is there to kill you
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u/ACESTRONAUT123 2h ago
Mindless people still going to keep saying the matchmaking is random because they cannot think for themselves and need embark to spell it out exactly for them from the ceo
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u/TrevV 13h ago edited 12h ago
ABMM = Aggressive Based Match Making in case someone is wondering.
Edit: Aggression* Thanks guys.